Article-I.D.: avsdT.134
Posted: Tue Jun 11 16:05:47 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 15-Jun-85 06:07:33 EDT
Distribution: net
Organization: Ampex Audio-Video Engineering, Redwood City, CA
Lines: 10


		MY MAC ATTACK !!!!

 I am considering the purchase of a 'FAT MAC'; 512k+2 drives,Printer,
 etc. But I have some reservations with what Apple is now going thru
 as well as the APPARENT lack of some software due to what a pain in
 the neck it is to write for MAC, I am led to beleave! How does the 
 existing MAC community feel about the system as it stands now and
 how do you feel about the future??
 Please reply to me as soon as you can. Thanks a lot.

Article-I.D.: apple.170
Posted: Mon Jun 24 23:51:48 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 27-Jun-85 05:37:53 EDT
References: <134@avsdT.BERKNET>
Distribution: net
Organization: Apple Education Research Group, Cupertino CA
Lines: 6


 						...... How does the 
 existing MAC community feel about the system as it stands now and
 how do you feel about the future??

The future is not what it used to be.

Article-I.D.: aicchi.503
Posted: Fri Jun 28 19:55:43 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 29-Jun-85 04:03:43 EDT
References: <134@avsdT.BERKNET> <170@apple.UUCP>
Distribution: net
Organization: Analysts International Corp; Chicago Branch
Lines: 32

 >  
 >   						...... How does the 
 >   existing MAC community feel about the system as it stands now and
 >   how do you feel about the future??
 >  
 >  The future is not what it used to be.

If I were to modify the existing system in any way it would be to success-
fully add a hard disk that was possibly external and provide two (2)
internal floppy disks (ala SONY) that were double-sided double-density.

Could you also see about adding color?  Please keep any further iterations
of the system small and clean in design.  What we don't need are more big
boxes, which admittedly are easy to design hardware additions for but are
murder on peripatetic individuals.

Also, please find some way to convince the software firms that produce for
you that this is a machine for power users too.  I would think that ease
of use need not be confused with lack of ability in the spreadsheet arena.
As you might guess I am delighted that Microsoft is bringing Excel to the
market.

Lastly, more memory is an issue.  Perhaps its addition can either be in
unusually large chunks like 2 or 4 megs (so as to avoid the need to add
much more in the immediate future) or perhaps open up the rear with a 
hatch or something that would allow for the insertion of memory cards.

-- 
Eric Geoffrey Vann
Analysts International (Chicago Branch)
(312) 882-4673
..!ihnp4!aicchi!egv

Article-I.D.: cbdkc1.1017
Posted: Sun Jun 30 14:57:09 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 1-Jul-85 08:31:11 EDT
References: <134@avsdT.BERKNET> <170@apple.UUCP> <503@aicchi.UUCP>
Reply-To: gwe@dkc1.UUCP ( George Erhart  )
Distribution: net
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Lines: 29

In article <503@aicchi.UUCP> egv@aicchi.UUCP (Vann) writes:
 >>  
 >>   						...... How does the 
 >>   existing MAC community feel about the system as it stands now and
 >>   how do you feel about the future??
 >>  
 >>  The future is not what it used to be.
 > 
 > Could you also see about adding color?  

               On the subject of ^^^^^.

I would be unwilling to give up the Mac's super readable B&W screen
for a few bits of color. I have used an IBM (yuck!) PC with their 
brand of color monitor and it stinks! The damn thing aint readable! 
I also think that it will be a few years before we see a color Mac that
compares to the current one in readability. (No, I haven't seen an ST and
I doubt they did much better.)

A recent issue of PC magazine compared the Mac to an IBM PC, and discovered
that the only thing you would really need the PC for is color. If you didn't
want color (or a hard disk) you would probably prefer the Mac's more readable
screen and more friendly software. (They did note that the PC software is 
getting friendlier.)

Nuf said,

George Erhart
ATT-NS/Bell Labs

Article-I.D.: utah-cs.3397
Posted: Wed Jul  3 11:40:32 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 5-Jul-85 06:22:31 EDT
References: <134@avsdT.BERKNET> <170@apple.UUCP> <503@aicchi.UUCP> <1017@cbdkc1.UUCP>
Reply-To: brownc@utah-cs.UUCP (Eric C. Brown)
Distribution: net
Organization: Univ of Utah CS Dept
Lines: 14

In article <1017@cbdkc1.UUCP> gwe@dkc1.UUCP ( George Erhart  ) writes:
 > In article <503@aicchi.UUCP> egv@aicchi.UUCP (Vann) writes:
 > I would be unwilling to give up the Mac's super readable B&W screen
 > for a few bits of color. I have used an IBM (yuck!) PC with their 
 > brand of color monitor and it stinks! The damn thing aint readable! 
Try using a real monitor and color display, like the one on the Tandy 2000.
640x400 resolution w/ 8 colors; The display is crisp, clean, non-interlaced,
and more readable than the display on the Macintosh.  Just goes to show what
you can do if you're willing to put a couple of competent engineers on a
problem...

Eric C. Brown
brownc@utah-cs
...!{ihnp4, seismo, decvax}!utah-cs!brownc

Article-I.D.: tolerant.116
Posted: Thu Jul  4 16:12:21 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 9-Jul-85 05:37:16 EDT
References: <134@avsdT.BERKNET> <170@apple.UUCP> <503@aicchi.UUCP>
Distribution: net
Organization: Tolerant Systems, Inc.  San Jose, CA
Lines: 12

 >  
 >   						...... How does the 
 >   existing MAC community feel about the system as it stands now and
 >   how do you feel about the future??
 >  
 >  The future is not what it used to be.

My greatest desire is for a MUCH larger screen.  Something like 1024x1024 at
least.  I realize that this is EXPENSIVE, but it is the only way to really
take advantage of multiple windows.  At its current size, the Mac screen is
barey big enough for a single 'dumb termninal'-sized page.  I would like to
see a 8-1/2x11 page plus a little room to work.

Article-I.D.: amdahl.1761
Posted: Tue Jul  9 21:40:37 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 13-Jul-85 08:41:34 EDT
References: <134@avsdT.BERKNET> <170@apple.UUCP> <503@aicchi.UUCP> <1017@cbdkc1.UUCP> <3397@utah-cs.UUCP>
Distribution: net
Organization: Amdahl Corp, Sunnyvale CA
Lines: 26

 >  In article <1017@cbdkc1.UUCP> gwe@dkc1.UUCP ( George Erhart  ) writes:
 >> In article <503@aicchi.UUCP> egv@aicchi.UUCP (Vann) writes:
 >> I would be unwilling to give up the Mac's super readable B&W screen
 >> for a few bits of color. I have used an IBM (yuck!) PC with their 
 >> brand of color monitor and it stinks! The damn thing aint readable! 

 >  Try using a real monitor and color display, like the one on the Tandy 2000.
 >  640x400 resolution w/ 8 colors; The display is crisp, clean, non-interlaced,
 >  and more readable than the display on the Macintosh.  Just goes to show what
 >  you can do if you're willing to put a couple of competent engineers on a
 >  problem...
 >  
 >  Eric C. Brown
 >  brownc@utah-cs
 >  ...!{ihnp4, seismo, decvax}!utah-cs!brownc

Are you trying to say that TANDY is stealing engineers from Apple :-)

Anyway, who takes Tandy equipment seriously?
( Spoken like a true MacBiggot )
-- 
Time for a new catchy phrase in my                           Howard C. Simonson
 .signature, now if I could only     ...{dragon,hplabs,ihnp4,nsc}!amdahl!howard
  think of one...

[ Opinion? What opinion.  I think you have the wrong guy... ]

Article-I.D.: mit-vax.360
Posted: Fri Jul 12 04:03:06 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 16-Jul-85 02:07:26 EDT
References: <134@avsdT.BERKNET> <170@apple.UUCP> <503@aicchi.UUCP> <1017@cbdkc1.UUCP> <3397@utah-cs.UUCP> <1761@amdahl.UUCP>
Reply-To: csdf@mit-vax.UUCP (Charles Forsythe)
Distribution: net
Organization: MIT, Cambridge, MA
Lines: 19

In article <1761@amdahl.UUCP> howard@amdahl.UUCP (Howard C. Simonson) writes:

 > Are you trying to say that TANDY is stealing engineers from Apple :-)

Tandy doesn't have that big a sense of humor.

 > Anyway, who takes Tandy equipment seriously?
 > ( Spoken like a true MacBiggot )

People who don't like to wait a hundred years for disk drives, aren't
color blind, like IBM compatability, and aren't stupid enough to pay
$3000 for $400 worth of parts (if you don't belive me, open up your
MAC).
-- 
Charles Forsythe
CSDF@MIT-VAX
"The Church of Fred has yet to come under attack.
    No one knows about it."
        -Rev. Wang Zeep

Article-I.D.: leadsv.523
Posted: Wed Jul 10 14:05:54 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 17-Jul-85 06:16:48 EDT
References: <134@avsdT.BERKNET> <170@apple.UUCP> <503@aicchi.UUCP> <116@tolerant.UUCP>
Distribution: net
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale CA
Lines: 21
Summary: How about multi tasking and batch execution ?

In article <116@tolerant.UUCP>, maddog@tolerant.UUCP (Bill Arnett) writes:
 >>  
 >>   						...... How does the 
 >>   existing MAC community feel about the system as it stands now and
 >>   how do you feel about the future??
 >>  

I don't know about the future, but it sure would be nice if the Mac
supported multiple concurrent tasks.  That's one of the big advantages of
Unix.  A utility similar to 'at' on Unix for delayed unattended execution
would sure be nice, also.  That's what I want for Christmas (as well as a
hard disk).

		Are you listening Apple ?
-- 

Terry Morse  (408)743-1487

UUCP:     { (ucbvax!dual!sun) | (ihnp4!qubix) }    !sunncal!leadsv!morse
UUCP:     { allegra | ihnp4 | dual } !fortune!amdcad!cae780!leadsv!morse
UUCP:					  seismo!nsc!cae780!leadsv!morse

Article-I.D.: ucbvax.9098
Posted: Tue Jul 16 02:08:42 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 17-Jul-85 20:17:52 EDT
References: <134@avsdT.BERKNET> <170@apple.UUCP> <503@aicchi.UUCP> <116@tolerant.UUCP> <523@leadsv.UUCP>
Reply-To: grady@ucbvax.UUCP (Steven Grady)
Distribution: net
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Lines: 15

In article <523@leadsv.UUCP> morse@leadsv.UUCP (Terry Morse) writes:
 > 
 > I don't know about the future, but it sure would be nice if the Mac
 > supported multiple concurrent tasks.  That's one of the big advantages of
 > Unix.

It seems to me that the Switcher could be modified to jump between
tasks, running all of them (thus concurrently).  It already saves the
screen, and perhaps it would only redraw one screen (the process youre
currently working on).  The main drawback I see to this (and this is
becuase or despite the fact that I am new to Mac programming) is how
to determine a check for input.  But that task doesn't seem
insurmountable.. Any ideas?

	Steven

Article-I.D.: rosevax.179
Posted: Tue Jul  9 17:14:33 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 20-Jul-85 11:20:29 EDT
References: <134@avsdT.BERKNET> <170@apple.UUCP> <503@aicchi.UUCP> <1017@cbdkc1.UUCP> <3397@utah-cs.UUCP>
Distribution: net
Organization: Rosemount Inc., Eden Prairie, MN
Lines: 31

 >  In article <1017@cbdkc1.UUCP> gwe@dkc1.UUCP ( George Erhart  ) writes:
 >> In article <503@aicchi.UUCP> egv@aicchi.UUCP (Vann) writes:
 >> I would be unwilling to give up the Mac's super readable B&W screen
 >> for a few bits of color. I have used an IBM (yuck!) PC with their 
 >> brand of color monitor and it stinks! The damn thing aint readable! 
 >  Try using a real monitor and color display, like the one on the Tandy 2000.
 >  640x400 resolution w/ 8 colors; The display is crisp, clean, non-interlaced,
 >  and more readable than the display on the Macintosh.  Just goes to show what
 >  you can do if you're willing to put a couple of competent engineers on a
 >  problem...
 >  
 >  Eric C. Brown

Excuse me, but as a (my opinion) competent engineer, I agree with the first
opinion.  No color other than red, green, or blue on a color CRT is as "crisp
[and] clean" as the display of a monochrome monitor.  Further, you have to
pay more for a given resolution increase in color than in monochrome.  Color
has the advantage of carrying information better, but the price and resolution/
clarity penalty is real and significant.  Our own product (a 68000 based
process control system) has had to sacrifice in this same area, mainly in
resolution, for cost reasons, and our consoles sell for >$15K!  Apple chose to
drop color to get resolution and clarity for a given price; I think their 
choice was the right one.

(I suppose I better have the standard disclaimers about my employer not
sharing my above opinions....)

-- 
Andy Hogan   Rosemount, Inc.   Mpls MN
path: ihnp4!stolaf!umn-cs!rosevax!hogan
Quality used to be free, but now it merely has a fantastic ROI.

Article-I.D.: apple.3667
Posted: Sat Jul 20 16:04:33 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 21-Jul-85 23:29:28 EDT
Reply-To: lsr@apple.UUCP (Larry Rosenstein)
Distribution: net
Organization: Advanced Development Group, Apple Computer
Lines: 31

In article <9098@ucbvax.ARPA> grady@ucbvax.UUCP (Steven Grady) writes:
 > It seems to me that the Switcher could be modified to jump between
 > tasks, running all of them (thus concurrently).

The version of Switcher after 2.9 (I believe) support a rudimentary
form of multitasking.  An application can arrange to have one of its
procedures called periodically by the Switcher while it is switched
out.

When Andy Herzfeld implemented this, he tried to provide an option so
that the application could be switched in (except for the screen)
before the procedure was called.  He ran into some problems because of
the time needed to do the switch and the necessity for turning
interrupts off.  So in the final implementation, the application does
not get switched in.

This means that the application has to be very careful about what is
does.  It must locate its heap zone in the Switcher's data structures
and do any allocations on that zone.  It must realize that its
low-memory globals are not switched in, etc.  But for applications
that are well-behaved, the feature does work.

All this will be documented in Inside Switcher that Andy is currently
writing.

-- 
Larry Rosenstein
Apple Computer

UUCP:  {nsc, dual, voder, ios}!apple!lsr
CSNET: lsr@Apple.CSNET

Article-I.D.: cmu-cs-h.235
Posted: Fri Jul 26 19:25:16 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 28-Jul-85 06:29:51 EDT
Organization: Carnegie-Mellon University, CS/RI
Lines: 36


Now that @i(@u(@b(THE PEOPLE WHO WEAR LITTLE BOW TIES))) at Apple have been
forced to leave or "have been fired up stairs", I MIGHT consider buying a 
Mac.  My prerequisites are something like this:  First, when the ROM changes
are made I want to see a board swap made, not just a switching of the prom
itself.  When the swap is made I want to see a fix to the misengineered
analog board (ala fried and over heated Macs).  Until I see Apple's 
attitude change concerning the over heating problems I will not touch the
machine.  Secondly, if Apple is going to survive the onslaught of the Atari ST
and the Amiga then something should be done about the speed of the Mac;
namely, a coprocessor should be offered to manage the screen.  This should be
offered as a very inexpensive option to existing mac owners (read "at cost")
and then built into all newly manufactured Macs.  (If this is not done I will
not hate Apple for the rest of my life, but will most likely buy an Amigia
instead of a Mac.)  The next change that should be implimented is the Obnoxious
cost of the memory upgrade.  If this does not change soon then I WILL hate
Apple for ever.  Other things such as a better feeling keyboard (optional and
reasonablely priced, but not cheap), and a two or three button mouse (free
upgrade) should be seriously looked at.  I would have mentioned an internal
harddisk and the ability for third party vendors to add hardware to the Mac,
but I have already read in the paper that these will come about soon.

Now I know that all of this seems to be a big bit much but there are several
things to look at.  Consider once again the Amigia and the Atari ST.  Both of
these machines seem to have been designed with some of these better features in
mind.  They are also priced much more reasonablely.  Considering the outrageous
amount of money Apple has been charging for the Mac it would seem to be Good
Style for them to offer these upgrades as suggested.  This would also help the
bad reputation Apple has got for itself over the last several years.  An awful
lot of people that I know feel that they will never again consider buying an
Apple product after seeing the performance of @i(@u(@b(THE PEOPLE WHO WEAR
LITTLE BOW TIES))).

BTW,  one last Really Great Idea would be for Apple to try to get the Woz back.
I realize that this will be practically impossible but it is a pretty spiffy
idea.