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Atari and Comdex [message #123502] Tue, 26 November 1985 18:18 Go to next message
jons is currently offline  jons
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Article-I.D.: islenet.1886
Posted: Tue Nov 26 18:18:26 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 29-Nov-85 10:57:46 EST
Reply-To: jons@islenet.UUCP (Jonathan Spangler)
Organization: Islenet Inc.,  Honolulu
Lines: 22
Xref: watmath net.micro.atari:1809 net.micro.amiga:906

I understand through people who went to COMDEX in Las Vegas
that Commordore didn't even show up with the Amiga.

Seems a bit odd considering the money put into their advertising scheme...

Instead, people at COMDEX saw an absolutely fantastic display
of the same bouncing ball demo running -- SIDE-BY-SIDE, mind you -- three
machines: 520ST, Amiga, and Mac. All three were running the same ball demo. 
Because of the speed difference, the ST was the clear winner, but not only
becaue of the speed, but also the color which was much more brilliant.

What do you think about this? Why didn't Commordore take the Amiga to
Comdex? Why am I not reading anything about it in December PC magazines?
How is the $124 million loss for 3rd quarter going to affect them?

Please direct answers to the net as I'm sure all are interested.

Puzzled, but with aloha,

-- 
Jonathan Spangler
{ihnp4,vortex,dual}!islenet!jons
Re: Atari and Comdex [message #123560 is a reply to message #123502] Mon, 02 December 1985 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
warren is currently offline  warren
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Article-I.D.: ssc-vax.395
Posted: Mon Dec  2 11:57:48 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 5-Dec-85 07:19:52 EST
References: <1886@islenet.UUCP>
Organization: Boeing Aerospace Co., Seattle, WA
Lines: 34
Xref: watmath net.micro.atari:1859 net.micro.amiga:954

 >  I understand through people who went to COMDEX in Las Vegas
 >  that Commordore didn't even show up with the Amiga.
 >  
 >  Seems a bit odd considering the money put into their advertising scheme...

I have also heard similar rumors... including one that commodore has
filed for chapter 11... IS THIS TRUE???  Being a new Amiga owner,
I am somewhat interested in having this rumor discussed and cleared.
Perhaps Commodore Amiga would have some interesting and informative
comments to make?

Does anyone over at Amiga know when the DOS user's guide (and the
other "mentioned" documentation) will be available?  The hints
posted to the net as well as simple experimentation have revealed a
lot, but it would be nice to know what I'm doing/missing.

Will the clock on version 1.1 keep time???  Will the "real" version
of Textcraft allow you to change directories/disks with the "open"
command (rather than selecting the drawer the files are in along
with Textcraft)?  Will the V 1.1 Notepad allow you to print out the
fonts without doing a screen dump???

If you have answers to any of these questions, please post them, as
I'm sure many of us would be curious to know the answer.

Thanks in advance...


Warren Kring
Boeing Aerospace Co.
Seattle, Wa

"The questions above are not to be confused with me or my
employer...  my cat made me do it..."
Re: Atari and Comdex [message #123569 is a reply to message #123502] Tue, 03 December 1985 18:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
farren is currently offline  farren
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Article-I.D.: well.320
Posted: Tue Dec  3 18:46:23 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 6-Dec-85 06:39:28 EST
References: <1886@islenet.UUCP>
Organization: Whole Earth Lectronic Link, Sausalito, CA
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Xref: watmath net.micro.atari:1869 net.micro.amiga:961

In article <1886@islenet.UUCP>, jons@islenet.UUCP (Jonathan Spangler) writes:
 >  
 >  Instead, people at COMDEX saw an absolutely fantastic display
 >  of the same bouncing ball demo running -- SIDE-BY-SIDE, mind you -- three
 >  machines: 520ST, Amiga, and Mac. All three were running the same ball demo. 
 >  Because of the speed difference, the ST was the clear winner, but not only
 >  becaue of the speed, but also the color which was much more brilliant.

   One (of the many) things ATARI didn't mention in their bouncing ball
display was that this is an EASY, EASY, EASY demo to do!  I'm pretty sure
(and don't you DARE call this bluff!!) that I could produce an acceptable
version of it to run on the Apple II!  Instead, ask Atari if 1) there's
enough processor bandwidth left while it's running to do a LOT of processing,
2) if there was sound to go with it, synchronized with the ball, and 3) How
long it took them to GET that display - I'd be willing to bet that they had
several of their hottest-shot programmers working on those, and do you really
think that they would bother to make the Mac version as pretty?
   The impression I get of Atari lately (and don't get me wrong, I basically
like Atari's stuff) is that they will stop at NOTHING to get the public to
believe in their superiority, and if this includes providing insufficient
information for a true, objective comparison, well, thats the way it goes.
Personally, I find this kind of marketing scheme insulting not only to
the technically competent people like us, but even more to those who can't
know any better.

-- 
           Mike Farren
           uucp: {dual, hplabs}!well!farren
           Fido: Sci-Fido, Fidonode 125/84, (415)655-0667
           USnail: 390 Alcatraz Ave., Oakland, CA 94618
Re: Atari and Comdex [message #123584 is a reply to message #123502] Fri, 06 December 1985 11:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
drforsey is currently offline  drforsey
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Article-I.D.: watcgl.2858
Posted: Fri Dec  6 11:03:27 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 7-Dec-85 03:51:06 EST
References: <1886@islenet.UUCP> <320@well.UUCP>
Reply-To: drforsey@watcgl.UUCP (Dave Forsey)
Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario
Lines: 37
Xref: watmath net.micro.atari:1883 net.micro.amiga:975

In article <320@well.UUCP> farren@well.UUCP (Mike Farren) writes:
 >>  ... same bouncing ball demo running -- SIDE-BY-SIDE, mind you -- three
 >>  machines: 520ST, Amiga, and Mac. All three were running the same ball demo. 
 >>  Because of the speed difference, the ST was the clear winner, but not only
 >>  becaue of the speed, but also the color which was much more brilliant.
 > 
 >    One (of the many) things ATARI didn't mention in their bouncing ball
 > display was that this is an EASY, EASY, EASY demo to do!  I'm pretty sure
 > (and don't you DARE call this bluff!!) that I could produce an acceptable
 > version of it to run on the Apple II!  Instead, ask Atari if 1) there's
 > enough processor bandwidth left while it's running to do a LOT of processing,
 > 2) if there was sound to go with it, synchronized with the ball, and 3) How
 > long it took them to GET that display - I'd be willing to bet that they had
 > several of their hottest-shot programmers working on those, 

Funny how Commodore never mentioned how easy the bouncing ball is to do, the
major problem being the actual data to do the colour table animation on (and
that's not really a problem). Since the animation just involves changing
a few registers every few frame times there is plenty of processing power
left over. Synchronising sound is just a matter of saying "well gee I'm
on frame X, lets make a noise". Note that the fact that the ST was doing it
faster implies nothing about the power of the machine 

Let's stop the demo war discussion, at least at the level of "well yes you
can do it but you had to work harder to get it done". 
Marketing hype is marketing hype, the ST and the Amiga are different, 
each with their own advantages and disadvantages depending on what your
needs/budget are. If you want real graphics power, buy an Adage/Ikonas.

Personally I own an ST, but believe that GEM sucks and that TOS should be
tossed (a 200K OS - good grief!) but it provides me with a cheap bit-mapped
display, a 68000 and lots of support hardware which can be used for other
purposes (like a real-time, message-based OS).

Dave Forsey
Computer Graphics Laboratory
University of Waterloo, Waterloo Canada.
Re: Atari and Comdex [message #123603 is a reply to message #123502] Thu, 05 December 1985 04:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ln63fkn is currently offline  ln63fkn
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Article-I.D.: sdcc7.206
Posted: Thu Dec  5 04:23:09 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 7-Dec-85 17:03:26 EST
References: <1886@islenet.UUCP> <320@well.UUCP>
Reply-To: ln63fkn@sdcc7.UUCP (Paul van de Graaf)
Organization: U.C. San Diego, Academic Computer Center
Lines: 16
Xref: linus net.micro.atari:1822 net.micro.amiga:4854

In article <320@well.UUCP> farren@well.UUCP (Mike Farren) writes:
 >    The impression I get of Atari lately (and don't get me wrong, I basically
 > like Atari's stuff) is that they will stop at NOTHING to get the public to
 > believe in their superiority, and if this includes providing insufficient
 > information for a true, objective comparison, well, thats the way it goes.

Atari is not pushing superiority, only price/performance ratio.  If price is
your only concern, then clearly the ST is superior.  Having a mac/amiga/ST
side-by-side demonstration lets the buyer decide.  Atari's strong point is a
price around half the competition's.  Even if their comparisons are "unfair",
are they $1000.00 worth unfair?  No!  Amiga and Apple should stop pandering
"yuppie ads" and offer some substantive ads of their own if they feel 
mistreated.  Apple could stress their "superior" user interface, and Amiga
could stress its superior graphics hardware and multitasking software.

Paul van de Graaf		sdcsvax!sdcc7!ln63fkn		U. C. San Diego
Re: Atari and Comdex [message #130084 is a reply to message #123502] Fri, 06 December 1985 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Felton.PA is currently offline  Felton.PA
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Article-I.D.: caip.637
Posted: Fri Dec  6 10:48:47 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 7-Dec-85 21:22:48 EST
Sender: daemon@caip.RUTGERS.EDU
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
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From: Felton.PA@Xerox.ARPA


	Some people seem to think that Atari was wrong to write its own version
of Boing and compare it to the Amiga version. Two months ago it seemed
like the Amigas stongest selling point was that it could produce
graphics like those in Boing. Every one was saying how fantastic it was.
Now that Atari has a version all you hear from the Amiga people is how
simplistic the program is and just wait until you see what the Amiga can
really do.
	As far as I am concerned all that Atari was doing was saying  "Hey,
whats the big deal about a bouncing ball demo. We can do one that looks
just as good." It seems to me that they were doing a service to the
general public by showing people that one bouncing ball program does not
a computer make.
		I am not saying that this means that the Atari ST has the graphics
capabilities that the Amiga has. It doesn't. On the other hand, I have
yet to be convinced that the Amiga has enough special graphics to make
up for the additional price ($1000 vs. $2000). Though it may seem that I
am biased in Atari's favor, actually I like both machines very much. I
just wish that people wouldn't get so indignant about a little healthy
competitive marketing hype. So, Atari put the monocrome price on the
color monitor in their magazine ads, and Commidore shows light streaming
out of their monitor during the birth of a star child in their TV ads.
The two companies alone will produce more than enough hype. I don't
think that we need alot of "my computer is better than your computer"
fanatics fanning the flames.
		
		
	 John
Re: Atari and Comdex [message #279420 is a reply to message #123502] Thu, 12 December 1985 12:07 Go to previous message
hr is currently offline  hr
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Article-I.D.: uicsl.151400013
Posted: Thu Dec 12 12:07:00 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 14-Dec-85 00:49:47 EST
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Nf-From: uicsl.UUCP!hr    Dec 12 11:07:00 1985


RE: My computer can beat your mother's combat boots.

"	Now that Atari has a version [of BOING] all you hear
from the Amiga people is how simplistic the program is ...."

Lets be careful of what we mean by "Amiga people". We who have been going
ga ga over the Amiga have been the ones raving about the demo. It really
IS (or was) a good demo. Lots of flash. Way back when the Amiga was being
shown at SIGGRAPH, the crowds were staring at BOING. The people with the Amiga
T shirts were saying that it was one of their oldest demos, yes it looked
good, but that IT WASN'T THAT HARD TO DO. While I am not fond of what
Commodore's marketing people have done, the TV ad seemed like a stupid
parody of the MAC ads, the technical people have been fairly straight
with us.

	"On the other hand, I have yet to be convinced that the Amiga
	has enough special graphics to make up for the additional price
	($1000 vs. $2000)."

I am afraid that a lot of people will feel the same way. Unless the
Amiga can find a market niche, it will have problems. Personally, I'm
hoping that it becomes a low end engineering workstation. If the 68020
board succeeds, the Amiga could be a fairly nice under $5,000 computer.
----

	harold ravlin		{ihnp4,pur-ee}!uiucdcs!uicsl!hr
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