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net.sources.amiga - it's time! [message #91357] Thu, 07 November 1985 12:24 Go to next message
bees is currently offline  bees
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Article-I.D.: infoswx.45100015
Posted: Thu Nov  7 12:24:00 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 10-Nov-85 08:40:41 EST
Lines: 11
Nf-ID: #N:infoswx:45100015:000:368
Nf-From: infoswx.UUCP!bees    Nov  7 11:24:00 1985


Isn't it time to create a net.sources.amiga and also decide on
a standard for posting binary, ala BINHEX or what ever is best?

I vote yea... please vote, too.  This and all responses should
be cross posted here and to net.news.group.  If response is
great enough, the group will be created.

Ray Davis
Teknekron Infoswitch, Richardson, TX
infoswx!bees, (214)644-0570
Re: net.sources.amiga - it's time! [message #91378 is a reply to message #91357] Mon, 11 November 1985 09:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cc100jr is currently offline  cc100jr
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Article-I.D.: gitpyr.1011
Posted: Mon Nov 11 09:52:51 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 12-Nov-85 04:27:54 EST
References: <45100015@infoswx>
Reply-To: cc100jr@gitpyr.UUCP (Joel M. Rives)
Organization: GIT, Atlanta
Lines: 23

In article <45100015@infoswx> bees@infoswx.UUCP writes:
 > 
 > Isn't it time to create a net.sources.amiga and also decide on
 > a standard for posting binary, ala BINHEX or what ever is best?
 > 
 > I vote yea... please vote, too.  This and all responses should
 > be cross posted here and to net.news.group.  If response is
 > great enough, the group will be created.
 > 

Hear, hear !!!

I vote yea also!

		    The never-present Whisper Spirit


Joel Rives
Georgia Insitute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!cc100jr

   "Remember, no matter where you go, there you are!"
					<< Buckaroo Banzai >>
Re: net.sources.amiga - it's time! [message #91394 is a reply to message #91357] Sun, 10 November 1985 10:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
peter is currently offline  peter
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Article-I.D.: graffiti.425
Posted: Sun Nov 10 10:53:20 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 13-Nov-85 07:45:37 EST
References: <45100015@infoswx>
Organization: The Power Elite, Houston, TX
Lines: 28

 >  Isn't it time to create a net.sources.amiga and also decide on

Let's not & say we did. How about posting AMIGA sources to net.sources
until such time as people start complaining about the quantity. Also,
how about trying to make your programs relatively hardware independant.
It should be possible to package stuff so that with appropriate #ifdefs
in the implementation section the same code can be run on the Mac, the 520,
and the AMIGA. In fact a lot of it should even be usable on UNIX and IBMs.
If I can do it, why can't you?

 >  a standard for posting binary, ala BINHEX or what ever is best?

Let's not post binary, or at least discourage it. If you really need to
binary something up, please use "uuencode/uudecode". This format is generally
available and allows non-amici (plural of amicus) to see if they can make use
of the data (frex if you post an image).

 >  I vote yea... please vote, too.  This and all responses should
 >  be cross posted here and to net.news.group.  If response is
 >  great enough, the group will be created.

I vote no, at least until the quantity is great enough that another group is
actually needed. That point has not yet been reached.
-- 
Name: Peter da Silva
Graphic: `-_-'
UUCP: ...!shell!{graffiti,baylor}!peter
IAEF: ...!kitty!baylor!peter
Re: net.sources.amiga [message #91402 is a reply to message #91357] Wed, 13 November 1985 00:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jef is currently offline  jef
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Article-I.D.: caip.434
Posted: Wed Nov 13 00:27:24 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 14-Nov-85 07:28:39 EST
Sender: daemon@caip.RUTGERS.EDU
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 19

From: jef@lbl-rtsg.arpa

There are three options:

1) talk in net.micro.amiga and sources in net.micro.amiga;
2) talk in net.micro.amiga and sources in net.sources;
3) talk in met.micro.amiga and sources in net.sources.amiga.

I would just like to point out that if you Usenet folks decide on option 2,
there will be no way to get the sources to us Internet folks.  So please,
either post sources here or create a net.sources.amiga, but DON'T put Amiga
sources in net.sources.

Anyway, what's the big deal about creating a new newsgroup?  It's just another
line in a file.  We'll have the same amount of traffic either way.  Or are
newsgroups implemented in some totally brain-damaged fashion that I don't want
to hear about?
---
Jef
Re: net.sources.amiga - it's time! [message #91406 is a reply to message #91357] Mon, 11 November 1985 11:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ln63fkn is currently offline  ln63fkn
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Article-I.D.: sdcc7.167
Posted: Mon Nov 11 11:56:48 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 14-Nov-85 20:39:45 EST
References: <45100015@infoswx>
Reply-To: ln63fkn@sdcc7.UUCP (Paul van de Graaf)
Organization: U.C. San Diego, Academic Computer Center
Lines: 15

In article <45100015@infoswx> bees@infoswx.UUCP writes:
 > Isn't it time to create a net.sources.amiga and also decide on
 > a standard for posting binary, ala BINHEX or what ever is best?
 > 
 > Ray Davis

I refer you to net.news.group, the appropriate newsgroup to discuss new groups.
Beware!  The net gods are angry at net.sources.mac for its high volume, 
commercial content, and human unreadable binaries.  I have a hostile attitude
toward binaries myself, and advise only sources be posted to source newsgroups.
Read net.news.group for other views on this issue.

Good luck, but I don't think you'll get your group.  (not very soon at least)

Paul van de Graaf		sdcsvax!sdcc7!ln63fkn		U. C. San Diego
Re: net.sources.amiga [message #123331 is a reply to message #91357] Thu, 14 November 1985 00:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sgt is currently offline  sgt
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Article-I.D.: alice.4557
Posted: Thu Nov 14 00:52:15 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 15-Nov-85 04:40:19 EST
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill
Lines: 21
Keywords: sources

I feel that I must add my humble opinion to the debate currently
raging about where to post source.
It matters not to me whether I have to read net.sources.amiga
or net.micro.amiga, what I am concerned with is the issue
of posting binaries.
I would prefer to see binaries strongly discouraged on the net.
For one thing, if an error somehow creeps into the text,
it would be much easier to fix in C source.
Secondly, I prefer having the opportunity to understand how
the programs I use work and to modify them.
Third, it is impractical to port a binary to or from another machine
such as a mac or 520ST.
Posting of both source and binary would be perfectly fine,
as long as the net can put up with the load.

If a choice must be made, keep it SOURCE!

Steve Tell
(At&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ)
(..alice!sgt)
Re: net.sources.amiga - it's time! [message #123333 is a reply to message #91357] Thu, 14 November 1985 08:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
robert is currently offline  robert
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Article-I.D.: gitpyr.1024
Posted: Thu Nov 14 08:43:47 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 15-Nov-85 05:04:37 EST
References: <45100015@infoswx> <544@ttidcb.UUCP>
Organization: Office of Computing Services, Georgia Tech
Lines: 20
Summary: I don't think it's time yet.

--

I personally don't think it's time, considering that there hasn't been that
much posted yet.  When it does become time, I don't believe a new newsgroup
is in order, but I'd rather see net.sources.mac renamed to net.sources.micro.
Considering the current debate as to much of the traffic on net.sources.mac,
I think we can expect to see a lot of traffic on net.sources.mac drop off
to just source code instead of all the binary stuff currently being posted.
This means that we can probably combine the two newsgroups into one without
having to worry about flooding the newsgroup.

				robert
-- 
Robert Viduya							01111000
Office of Computing Services
Georgia Institute of Technology

UUCP:	{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,masscomp,ut-ngp,rlgvax,sb1, ..
	 uf-cgrl,unmvax,ut-sally}!gatech!{gitpyr,gt-oscar,gt-felix}!robert
BITNET:	CC100RV @ GITVM1
Re: net.sources.amiga - it's time! [message #123338 is a reply to message #91357] Thu, 14 November 1985 17:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sloan is currently offline  sloan
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Article-I.D.: gatech.1952
Posted: Thu Nov 14 17:53:21 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 15-Nov-85 05:41:09 EST
References: <45100015@infoswx> <544@ttidcb.UUCP> <1024@gitpyr.UUCP>
Organization: School of Information and Computer Science, Georgia Tech, Atlanta
Lines: 17


I think we should avoid posting binary files.  If you are going to
learn how things are done, which is my prime objective at this time,
having the binary without the source can be very frustrating!  As far
as where they should be posted, I am all in favor of everything related
to the Amiga appearing in net.micro.amiga, so that I do not have to 
check numerous newsgroups for amiga-related information.

END OF BALLOT

Lee

-- 
Alan Sloan
School of Information & Computer Science, Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332
CSNet:  sloan @ GATech	ARPA:	sloan%GATech.CSNet @ CSNet-Relay.ARPA
uucp:	...!{akgua,allegra,hplabs,ihnp4,linus,seismo,ulysses}!gatech!sloan
Re: net.sources.amiga - it's time! [message #123343 is a reply to message #91357] Wed, 13 November 1985 12:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
svirsky is currently offline  svirsky
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Article-I.D.: ttidcb.544
Posted: Wed Nov 13 12:23:57 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 15-Nov-85 07:22:26 EST
References: <45100015@infoswx>
Reply-To: svirsky@ttidcb.UUCP (William Svirsky)
Organization: Transaction Technology, Inc. (CitiCorp), Santa Monica
Lines: 19
Summary: 

 > Isn't it time to create a net.sources.amiga and also decide on
 > a standard for posting binary, ala BINHEX or what ever is best?
 > 
I vote yes, but it might be wise to wait for the debate about
net.sources.mac to finish to see how they are going to handle the
shareware vs. public domain and the sources vs. executable
problems before creating net.sources.amiga.  Either that, or
create net.sources.amiga with the understanding that only sources
can be posted at present.  No reason why we can't decide on a
binary format right now though.

Bill Svirsky
-- 
Bill Svirsky
Citicorp/TTI
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.
Santa Monica, CA 90405
Work phone: 213-450-9111 x2597
Re: net.sources.amiga - it's time! [message #123353 is a reply to message #91357] Thu, 14 November 1985 04:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cc100jr is currently offline  cc100jr
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Article-I.D.: bty.194
Posted: Thu Nov 14 04:45:16 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 16-Nov-85 01:25:10 EST
References: <45100015@infoswx>
Sender: root@bty.UUCP
Reply-To: cc100jr@gitpyr.UUCP (Joel M. Rives)
Organization: BTY, Inc., Rockaway, NJ
Lines: 23

In article <45100015@infoswx> bees@infoswx.UUCP writes:
 > 
 > Isn't it time to create a net.sources.amiga and also decide on
 > a standard for posting binary, ala BINHEX or what ever is best?
 > 
 > I vote yea... please vote, too.  This and all responses should
 > be cross posted here and to net.news.group.  If response is
 > great enough, the group will be created.
 > 

Hear, hear !!!

I vote yea also!

		    The never-present Whisper Spirit


Joel Rives
Georgia Insitute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!cc100jr

   "Remember, no matter where you go, there you are!"
					<< Buckaroo Banzai >>
Re: net.sources.amiga [message #123360 is a reply to message #91357] Fri, 15 November 1985 09:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cc100jr is currently offline  cc100jr
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Article-I.D.: gitpyr.1030
Posted: Fri Nov 15 09:20:21 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 16-Nov-85 03:45:30 EST
References: <4557@alice.UUCP>
Reply-To: cc100jr@gitpyr.UUCP (Joel M. Rives)
Organization: GIT, Atlanta
Lines: 24
Keywords: sources

I previously voiced (?) a simple straightforward YEA vote for net.sources.amiga.
After reading some of the other comments here, I would like to amend my vote.
		
   Ammendment #1: I strongly agree with those who wish to discourage binary
		  propogation on the net. 

   Ammendment #2: If we are to have source-only postings, then why not have
		  a single news group to handle postings for all 68000 machines.
		  (Re: Robert Viduya's recent posting).

As an after thought, I would like to mention that one difficulty which is bound
to crop up in a generalized net.source post is the use of system dependent 
sub-routines (or macros). Sources which may strong use of amiga's Sprite
graphics are not likely to be easily convertable to the Mac (Or are they? I
am certainly no expert on either machine.).

			      the never-present whisper spirit

Joel Rives
Georgia Insitute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!cc100jr

   "Remember, no matter where you go, there you are!"
					<< Buckaroo Banzai >>
Re: net.sources.amiga [message #123369 is a reply to message #91357] Thu, 14 November 1985 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neil is currently offline  neil
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Article-I.D.: amiga.248
Posted: Thu Nov 14 11:35:21 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 16-Nov-85 08:47:31 EST
References: <434@caip.RUTGERS.EDU>
Reply-To: neil@rocky.UUCP (Neil Katin)
Organization: Commodore-Amiga Inc., 983 University Ave #D, Los Gatos CA 95030
Lines: 29
Xref: watmath net.micro.amiga:749 net.news.group:4545


There has been some discussion in net.micro.amiga about creating
a new newsgroup for amiga source.  net.sources.amiga has been suggested.

As I understand it, the proper method for getting this done is to move
the discussion to net.news.group so other system administrators can
see the discussion.  This also relieves net.micro.amiga from the flood
of "yes, lets do it" and "no, lets not" messages.

Unfortunately, most people I know have unsubscribed to net.news.group.
This tends to make the discussion rather one sided.  In addition, the
newsgroup is already innundated with a several large flaming discussions:

    removing net.bizzare
    removing net.flame
    removing net.internat
    "fear and loathing on the clouds"
    etc.

To those who think they REALLY know the rules:  what now?

I am willing to archive the group.  I am also willing to moderate it
if it is decided that mod.source.amiga is a better bet.

A note: I work for Commodore-Amiga, and am not a disinterested party.

    Neil Katin
    pyramid!amiga!neil
    408-395-6616
Re: net.sources.amiga [message #123394 is a reply to message #91357] Mon, 18 November 1985 16:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Heiby[1] is currently offline  Heiby[1]
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Article-I.D.: cuae2.1662
Posted: Mon Nov 18 16:21:45 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 20-Nov-85 00:17:48 EST
References: <434@caip.RUTGERS.EDU> <248@amiga.amiga.UUCP>
Reply-To: heiby@cuae2.UUCP (Heiby)
Organization: AT&T - /app/eng, Lisle, IL
Lines: 32
Xref: watmath net.micro.amiga:777 net.news.group:4611

In article <248@amiga.amiga.UUCP> neil@rocky.UUCP (Neil Katin) writes:
 > 
 > There has been some discussion in net.micro.amiga about creating
 > a new newsgroup for amiga source.  net.sources.amiga has been suggested.

There have been various micro-computers in the marketplace for many
years.  For some time, CP/M-80 systems reigned supreme.  There are still
quite a few of them out there.  (I have a CP/M-80 system, myself.)
You don't see much CP/M software getting posted to the net, though, do you?
You see, there is this thing called a "user group" that has meetings every
now and then and provides a means by which software can be distributed
to its members.  I belonged to such a group when I lived in Minneapolis.
It cost me about $15/yr to belong and included a monthly newsletter telling
what was going to happen at the monthly meeting.  I could bring floppy
disks to the meeting with about $1/each (for the club treasury) and get
a copy of any of the 150+ floppies full of public domain software in the
club library (up to 10/month).  This is what should be done with amiga
source.  This is what should be done with mac source.  I use the word
"source" loosely here.  I have 1477 blocks in net.sources.mac on my
machine.  I am not (yet) expiring it early.  I did a "tail -20" on the
entire contents of the newsgroup and found *seven* (7) out of 47 files
containing what looked like SOURCE.  The rest contained encoded binary
or discussion or requests of one kind or another.

In summary, if it must exist, let's limit it to *source*.  I believe
that the concept of a "user group" is the best way to distribute such
material.  I believe that machine-dependent binaries do not belong
on this medium.
-- 
Ron Heiby {NAC|ihnp4}!cuae2!heiby   Moderator: mod.newprod & mod.unix
AT&T-IS, /app/eng, Lisle, IL	(312) 810-6109
"I am not a number!  I am a free man!" (#6)
Re: net.sources.amiga [message #123435 is a reply to message #91357] Thu, 21 November 1985 18:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dave is currently offline  dave
Messages: 135
Registered: February 2013
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Article-I.D.: heurikon.141
Posted: Thu Nov 21 18:02:26 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 23-Nov-85 10:28:39 EST
References: <434@caip.RUTGERS.EDU> <248@amiga.amiga.UUCP> <1662@cuae2.UUCP>
Organization: Heurikon Corp., Madison WI
Lines: 10
Xref: linus net.micro.amiga:4676 net.news.group:3992

 >  .... I believe
 >  that the concept of a "user group" is the best way to distribute such
 >  material.

	Are the good people at Commodore, and all the Amiga developers, and 
Amiga owners who write code and then post it to the net going to show up at
my local users group (which does not yet exist) and distribute their programs?
If they do who is going to pay for their airlines ticket? Hmmmm.

						Dave Scidmore
Re: net.sources.amiga [message #123454 is a reply to message #91357] Wed, 20 November 1985 21:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
keithd is currently offline  keithd
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Article-I.D.: cadovax.968
Posted: Wed Nov 20 21:14:29 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 25-Nov-85 07:33:16 EST
References: <4557@alice.UUCP> <1030@gitpyr.UUCP>
Reply-To: keithd@cadovax.UUCP (Keith Doyle)
Organization: CONTEL CADO Systems, Torrance, CA
Lines: 32
Keywords: sources

In article <1030@gitpyr.UUCP> cc100jr@gitpyr.UUCP (Joel M. Rives) writes:
 > 
 > As an after thought, I would like to mention that one difficulty which is bound
 > to crop up in a generalized net.source post is the use of system dependent 
 > sub-routines (or macros). Sources which may strong use of amiga's Sprite
 > graphics are not likely to be easily convertable to the Mac (Or are they? I
 > am certainly no expert on either machine.).
 > 
 > Joel Rives

It's worse than that.  The Mac Finder, GEM (the Atari ST) and Intuition (Amiga)
are CHOCK FULL of special routines that do windowing, menus, graphics, text,
mouse etc. for the applications, (and they are quite different) such that
applications written for any of the above mentioned environments will not
port without LOTS of cutting and pasting and hacking and massaging on them,
to say nothing of individual hardware and/or compiler differences.  Most
applications that are worth anything are largely comprised of code that uses
these special routines.  The bottom line is, it is a BIG PAIN to port between
environments, and, you have to know LOTS about BOTH involved environments,
without getting the similar features confused.  This is assuming their
hardware differences do not affect the application significantly.

It is concievable that agreed-upon-syntax 'C' librarys could be
generated that would allow a higher degree of portability between these
environments, but someone is going to have to do a heck of a lot of study
of the different environments to determine what the least common denominators
are.  Something that I certainly don't have the time or inclination to do.

Keith Doyle
#  {ucbvax,ihnp4,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!keithd
#  cadovax!keithd@ucla-locus.arpa
Re: net.sources.amiga [message #123458 is a reply to message #91357] Sun, 24 November 1985 17:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bruceb is currently offline  bruceb
Messages: 41
Registered: October 1985
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Article-I.D.: amiga.338
Posted: Sun Nov 24 17:30:45 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 25-Nov-85 07:47:12 EST
References: <4557@alice.UUCP> <1030@gitpyr.UUCP> <968@cadovax.UUCP>
Reply-To: bruceb@hunter.UUCP (Bruce Barrett)
Organization: Commodore-Amiga Inc., 983 University Ave #D, Los Gatos CA 95030
Lines: 38
Keywords: sources

In article <968@cadovax.UUCP> keithd@cadovax.UUCP (Keith Doyle) writes:
 > In article <1030@gitpyr.UUCP> cc100jr@gitpyr.UUCP (Joel M. Rives) writes:
 >> 
 >> As an after thought, I would like to mention that one difficulty which is bound
 >> to crop up in a generalized net.source post is the use of system dependent 
 >> sub-routines (or macros). Sources which may strong use of amiga's Sprite
 >> graphics are not likely to be easily convertable to the Mac (Or are they? I
 >> am certainly no expert on either machine.).
 >> 
 >> Joel Rives
 > 
 > It's worse than that.The Mac Finder, GEM (the Atari ST) and Intuition (Amiga)
 > are CHOCK FULL of special routines that do windowing, menus, graphics, text,
 > mouse etc. for the applications, (and they are quite different) such that
 > applications written for any of the above mentioned environments will not
 > port without LOTS of cutting and pasting and hacking and massaging on them,
 > to say nothing of individual hardware and/or compiler differences.  Most
 > applications that are worth anything are largely comprised of code that uses
 > these special routines.  The bottom line is, it is a BIG PAIN to port between
 > environments, and, you have to know LOTS about BOTH involved environments,
 > without getting the similar features confused.  This is assuming their
 > hardware differences do not affect the application significantly.
 > 
 > It is concievable that agreed-upon-syntax 'C' librarys could be
 > generated that would allow a higher degree of portability between these
 > environments, but someone is going to have to do a heck of a lot of study
 > of the different environments to determine what the least common denominators
 > are.  Something that I certainly don't have the time or inclination to do.
 > 
 > Keith Doyle


	RUMOR has it that Lattice anounced a new product at Comdex that
allows you to use Apple Mac calling conventions to create software for
the Amiga.  If this works it would make porting much eaiser.  Has anyone 
seen this yet?  Can you do a review?

Thanks, BruceB
Re: net.sources.amiga [message #123475 is a reply to message #91357] Tue, 26 November 1985 23:36 Go to previous message
pajb is currently offline  pajb
Messages: 1
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Article-I.D.: ulysses.1148
Posted: Tue Nov 26 23:36:33 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 28-Nov-85 03:13:52 EST
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill
Lines: 33


   From: bruceb@amiga.UUCP (Bruce Barrett)
   Newsgroups: net.micro.amiga
   Date: 24 Nov 85 22:30:45 GMT
   Reply-To: bruceb@hunter.UUCP (Bruce Barrett)
   Keywords: sources

   In article <968@cadovax.UUCP> keithd@cadovax.UUCP (Keith Doyle) writes:
   >In article <1030@gitpyr.UUCP> cc100jr@gitpyr.UUCP (Joel M. Rives) writes:
   ......
	   RUMOR has it that Lattice anounced a new product at Comdex that
   allows you to use Apple Mac calling conventions to create software for
   the Amiga.  If this works it would make porting much eaiser.  Has anyone 
   seen this yet?  Can you do a review?

   Thanks, BruceB

Bruce,

It's really nice to get all this info, but PLEASE - *don't* include
all the previous messages !!!! We get enough guff over the network as
it is, I can hardly keep up with it - anything to keep it manageable !
I'm sure the system admin will agree, too. I'm posting this to the
net so every one can read, digest, and ...


-- 
Paul.

UUCP:	{decvax,allegra,vax135,ucbvax}!ulysses!circe!pajb
DDD:	(201) 582 7346
USPS:	AT&T Bell Labs, Room 5E-103, Murray Hill, NJ 07974

.. I don't care WHO you are, you're not walking on the water while I'M fishing.
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