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C.J.Cherryh, Tanith Lee, and other assorted female SF authors... [message #117594] Mon, 23 September 2013 18:22 Go to next message
liang is currently offline  liang
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Message-ID: <72@cvl.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 21-Feb-85 20:09:36 EST
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Posted: Thu Feb 21 20:09:36 1985
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How many people out there have read and liked any/all of Cherryh's stuff
or Tanith Lee's works?  I liked Cherryh's Downbelow Station a lot and much
of Tanith Lee's wierder stories.  A friend of mine however won't read any
of that stuff on first principles.  To paraphrase him, "after all, how many
really good female SF authors do you know?"  I personally think that the
number is certainly substantial.  I guess a lot of female SF writers though
are still suffering from prejudices such as this and find that they must hide
behind names which are patently male or gender non-specific.  Cases in point
are C.J.Cherryh and Andre Norton.

-eli

-- 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eli Liang  ---
        University of Maryland Computer Vision Lab, (301) 454-4526
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Re: C.J.Cherryh, Tanith Lee, and other assorted female SF authors... [message #117613 is a reply to message #117594] Mon, 23 September 2013 18:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
eric is currently offline  eric
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Message-ID: <150@osiris.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 23-Feb-85 12:15:25 EST
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Posted: Sat Feb 23 12:15:25 1985
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> How many people out there have read and liked any/all of Cherryh's stuff
> or Tanith Lee's works?  I liked Cherryh's Downbelow Station a lot and much
> of Tanith Lee's wierder stories.  A friend of mine however won't read any
> of that stuff on first principles.  To paraphrase him, "after all, how many
> really good female SF authors do you know?"  I personally think that the
> number is certainly substantial.  I guess a lot of female SF writers though
> are still suffering from prejudices such as this and find that they must hide
> behind names which are patently male or gender non-specific.  Cases in point
> are C.J.Cherryh and Andre Norton.

	I pity your friend, he is missing out on some very good SF. I have
read all of Cherryh's stuff, and much of it is very good (the short stories
in Sunfall, the Kesrith series, Downbelow Station). I am not a fan of Tanith
Lee, but there are other female authors who are also outstanding (Le Guin,
Kate Wilhelm, some of MacCaffrey's work, and some of McIntyre's). As with
anything else, there are good and bad female SF authors (and some that are
uneven).
-- 

					eric
					...!seismo!umcp-cs!aplvax!osiris!eric
Re: C.J.Cherryh, Tanith Lee, and other assorted female SF authors... [message #117633 is a reply to message #117594] Mon, 23 September 2013 18:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chabot is currently offline  chabot
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Message-ID: <732@decwrl.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 25-Feb-85 16:56:32 EST
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Posted: Mon Feb 25 16:56:32 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 27-Feb-85 10:08:55 EST
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Well, let's see: rejoinders to "just how many good female science fiction 
authors are there anyway"...in a pinch, a favorite repartee is to ridicule the
person's ideas of good science fiction.  You start out with "Well, just how
many good *male* science fiction authors are there anyway?" and get the person
to name the authors held dearest, and then snort and criticize the ones you 
know, and declare "*Never* heard of him" while obviously implying that he can't
be good if not well-known.  Fight fire with fire, I say.  It may be hard to 
put down the subject matter as being "only *men's* issues" (so that you're 
saying that they aren't worthy of consideration by the educated portions of the
human race, but only concern "typical" men's concerns which everybody knows
are racing forms and power lawn mowers :-) ), but, heck, the exercise in
sarcasm is probably worth the effort.

Of course, we should only be so lucky as to get such a fool as above to list
James Tiptree, Jr. as a favorite...on the other hand, you might not be able
to withstand the mirth!  (and, sadly, it's no longer very likely)

I like to try to worm such discussions around to how none of the person's 
favorites can compare to biggies of conventional literature, such as, say,
George Eliot.

L S Chabot
UUCP:	...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot
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Re: C.J.Cherryh, Tanith Lee, and other assorted female SF authors... [message #117637 is a reply to message #117594] Mon, 23 September 2013 18:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
res is currently offline  res
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Message-ID: <973@ihuxn.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 24-Feb-85 18:48:23 EST
Article-I.D.: ihuxn.973
Posted: Sun Feb 24 18:48:23 1985
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In response to: 
| How many people out there have read and liked any/all of Cherryh's stuff
| or Tanith Lee's works?  ... A friend of mine however won't read any
| of that stuff on first principles.  To paraphrase him, "after all, how many
| really good female SF authors do you know?"  I personally think that the
| number is certainly substantial.  I guess a lot of female SF writers though
| are still suffering from prejudices such as this and find that they must hide
| behind names which are patently male or gender non-specific.  Cases in point
| are C.J.Cherryh and Andre Norton.

Your friend has his head firmly ensconced in his ass.  If you wish, feel free
to convey this insightful comment to him.

I have been reading Science Fiction for many years, and I have found that I
have thoroughly enjoyed work by the following authors (among others)
	C. J. Cherryh (one of my all-time favorites)
	Marion Zimmer Bradley (The series on the People is great)
	Ursula K. LeGuin (Dispossessed is a masterpiece)
	Anne McCaffrey (Great Dragon Rider Series)
	Andre Norton (Some books are aimed at juveniles, but still first rate)

A hallmark of the female SF author seems to me to be a great sensitivity to the
reactions and development of the characters.  Hence, since I enjoy getting to
know a character as a story progresses, I greatly enjoy the work of the authors
named above.  That is NOT to say that male authors are incapable of the same
sensitivity.  I find Robert Silverberg's recent work quite well done in this
regard, for one.

Yes, for a long time some really good SF writers who happened to be of the
female gender had to hide that fact to get published.  I think that this
situation has begun to turn around -- I have begun to see garbagey SF on the
paperback shelves bearing the names of female authors!!

Perhaps another interminable discussion is in order, to whit:

	WHAT IS SOME OF THE WORSE SF YOU HAVE READ RECENTLY
	  A) BY A MALE AUTHOR
	  B) BY A FEMALE AUTHOR
	  C) BY NONE OF THE ABOVE

For (A) above, I nominate the Illearth Wars series (Chronicles of Thomas
Covenant).  I struggled through 2.5 of the volumes before I gave up and burned
them (they even smelled bad on the fire!).  For a close second to this I will
nominate Harlin Ellison (vulgarity for the sake of sensationalism and $$$).

I have to consider a while before I make any nominations for (B) or (C) above,
as I am normally not a book critic.

					Rich Strebendt
					...!ihnp4!ihuxn!res
Re: C.J.Cherryh, Tanith Lee, and other assorted female SF authors... [message #117661 is a reply to message #117594] Mon, 23 September 2013 18:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ariels is currently offline  ariels
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Message-ID: <1367@orca.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 25-Feb-85 13:38:41 EST
Article-I.D.: orca.1367
Posted: Mon Feb 25 13:38:41 1985
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> How many people out there have read and liked any/all of Cherryh's stuff
> or Tanith Lee's works?  I liked Cherryh's Downbelow Station a lot and much
> of Tanith Lee's wierder stories.  A friend of mine however won't read any
> of that stuff on first principles.  To paraphrase him, "after all, how many
> really good female SF authors do you know?"  I personally think that the
> number is certainly substantial.  I guess a lot of female SF writers though
> are still suffering from prejudices such as this and find that they must hide
> behind names which are patently male or gender non-specific.  Cases in point
> are C.J.Cherryh and Andre Norton.
> 
> -eli

Tell your friend to come out of the dark ages!  What a dumb thing to
say!  

"I'm not going to read anything by Chip Delaney or Steve Barnes.
 After all, How many really good black SF authors are there"

"I'm not going to read anything by Issac Asimov, Harlan Ellison, or
 Avram Davidson.  After all, how many really good Jewish SF authors
 are there?"


ETC

Your friend is missing out on Vonda McIntyre, Ursula LeGuin, Joan
Vinge, James Tiptree, Jr., Kate Wilhelm, and many other lesser known
but still good authors.  

Your friend is hiding behind prejudices formed when there were no
female SF authors.  Personally, I think he's missing a great deal.
I also think he deserves to miss out, if he can't get beyond
his backward, stupid, blind outlook on new things.

Give him some James Tiptree, and don't tell him 'til later that
she's a woman...

Ariel Shattan

..!tektronix!orca!ariels
Re: C.J.Cherryh, Tanith Lee, and other assorted female SF authors... [message #117662 is a reply to message #117594] Mon, 23 September 2013 18:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
messick is currently offline  messick
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Date: Mon, 25-Feb-85 13:56:21 EST
Article-I.D.: tekchips.310
Posted: Mon Feb 25 13:56:21 1985
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> How many people out there have read and liked any/all of Cherryh's stuff
> or Tanith Lee's works?  ...

C.J.Cherry is my favorite author.  I must admit that I found her fantasy
duo (The Dreamstone & Tree of Swords and Jewels) and Voyager in Night
rather difficult to follow at times.  However her technique of not
explicitly telling you everything you need to know to understand the
plot appeals to me -- I like to think a bit as I read.

--steve
tektronix!tekchips!messick
Re: Re: C.J.Cherryh, Tanith Lee, and other assorted female SF authors... [message #118660 is a reply to message #117613] Tue, 24 September 2013 14:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ellen is currently offline  ellen
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Date: Tue, 26-Feb-85 15:39:26 EST
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Posted: Tue Feb 26 15:39:26 1985
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> Your friend is missing out on Vonda McIntyre, Ursula LeGuin, Joan
> Vinge, James Tiptree, Jr., Kate Wilhelm, and many other lesser known
> but still good authors.  

You forgot Joanna Russ!!!! And Ellen Kuttner, Marion Zimmer
Bradley, Diane Duane, R.A. MacAvoy, Sylvia Engdahl, Madeleine
L'Engle, Katherine Kurtz, Jane Yolen, Joan Aiken.....Sorry,
I'm getting carried away.
				-Ellen   
Re: Re: C.J.Cherryh, Tanith Lee, and other assorted female SF authors... [message #118668 is a reply to message #117613] Tue, 24 September 2013 14:33 Go to previous message
ariels is currently offline  ariels
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Message-ID: <1372@orca.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 27-Feb-85 11:38:09 EST
Article-I.D.: orca.1372
Posted: Wed Feb 27 11:38:09 1985
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> > Your friend is missing out on Vonda McIntyre, Ursula LeGuin, Joan
> > Vinge, James Tiptree, Jr., Kate Wilhelm, and many other lesser known
> > but still good authors.  
> 
> You forgot Joanna Russ!!!! And Ellen Kuttner, Marion Zimmer
> Bradley, Diane Duane, R.A. MacAvoy, Sylvia Engdahl, Madeleine
> L'Engle, Katherine Kurtz, Jane Yolen, Joan Aiken.....Sorry,
> I'm getting carried away.
> 				-Ellen   


You're right.  I also forgot Zenna Henderson, Chelsea Quinn Yarbro
(try her SF some time, better than St. Germaine, in my opinion),
Marta Randall, Suzette Hayden Elgin, Jessica Amamanda Salmonson (ok,
so she's more fantasy), Jo Clayton...

Ariel
Re: Re: C.J.Cherryh, Tanith Lee, and other assorted female SF authors... [message #119803 is a reply to message #117613] Thu, 07 March 1985 15:31 Go to previous message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: brust@hyper.UUCP (Steven Brust)
Article-I.D.: hyper.119
Posted: Thu Mar  7 15:31:51 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 13-Mar-85 01:12:31 EST
References: <72@cvl.UUCP> <1367@orca.UUCP> <1000@reed.UUCP>
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Lines: 18

> > Your friend is missing out on Vonda McIntyre, Ursula LeGuin, Joan
> > Vinge, James Tiptree, Jr., Kate Wilhelm, and many other lesser known
> > but still good authors.  
> 
> You forgot Joanna Russ!!!! And Ellen Kuttner, Marion Zimmer
> Bradley, Diane Duane, R.A. MacAvoy, Sylvia Engdahl, Madeleine
> L'Engle, Katherine Kurtz, Jane Yolen, Joan Aiken.....Sorry,
> I'm getting carried away.
> 				-Ellen   
What caught my eye was the mention of Jane Yolan.  Wonderful
writer!  Have you read Cards of Grief?!?!  Also, looking more
closely at your list, Harty agreement with, at least, Diane Duane
(her first novel, at any rate) and MacAvoy.

Also, allow me to recommend Pamela Dean (The Secret Country, Ace,
May 1985).

                              -- SKZB
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