Megalextoria
Retro computing and gaming, sci-fi books, tv and movies and other geeky stuff.

Home » Archive » net.comics » Thor (spoiler)
Show: Today's Messages :: Show Polls :: Message Navigator
E-mail to friend 
Switch to threaded view of this topic Create a new topic Submit Reply
Thor (spoiler) [message #111778] Mon, 16 September 2013 13:22 Go to next message
jack is currently offline  jack
Messages: 83
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
Member
Message-ID: <29300002@hpfclg.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 5-Feb-85 18:44:00 EST
Article-I.D.: hpfclg.29300002
Posted: Tue Feb  5 18:44:00 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 10-Feb-85 06:21:58 EST
Organization: Hewlett-Packard - Fort Collins, CO
Lines: 14
Nf-ID: #N:hpfclg:29300002:000:703
Nf-From: hpfclg!jack    Feb  5 15:44:00 1985

So this Tiwaz character claims (in his own thoughts, yet) to be Thor's
great-grandfather, and by implication, Odin's grandfather.  Is there *any*
mythological basis to this?  I always thought that Odin was right there
close to the beginning of the Asgardian (Aesiric?) line.

I am glad that the discrepancy between Odin's two origins has at least
been mentioned.  Are we just going to discard the Odin's-eye version of
Odin's origin as the fusion of elder gods?  I'd like to dismiss everything
that the eye said as a fairy tale, but the eye told Thor that his mother was
the Earth-spirit, which Mother Earth herself verified in Thor #301.


						-Jack "1/256 vulcan" Applin
						 (hplabs!hp-dcd!jack)
Re: Thor (spoiler) [message #113674 is a reply to message #111778] Tue, 17 September 2013 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jsdy is currently offline  jsdy
Messages: 20
Registered: June 2013
Karma: 0
Junior Member
Message-ID: <112@hadron.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 23-Feb-85 01:01:06 EST
Article-I.D.: hadron.112
Posted: Sat Feb 23 01:01:06 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 27-Feb-85 07:26:44 EST
References: <29300002@hpfclg.UUCP>
Organization: Hadron, Inc., Fairfax, VA
Lines: 16

[color=blue]>   [Tiwaz]                                           ...  Is there *any*[/color]
[color=blue]>  mythological basis to this?  I always thought that Odin was right there[/color]
[color=blue]>  close to the beginning of the Asgardian (Aesiric?) line.[/color]

Tiwaz (Tiu/Tiw) was an old, old sky god in some Germanic line.  He did
predate Woden/Odin by a couple of generations; could have been the
grandpere.  He's not mentioned in my copy of the Prose Edda; but, then,
Odin wouldn't need to ask about himself! I don't have a copy of the
Poetic Edda here.  Odin started the Aesir later.

[color=blue]>  that the eye said as a fairy tale, but the eye told Thor that his mother was[/color]
[color=blue]>  the Earth-spirit, which Mother Earth herself verified in Thor #301.[/color]

Best way to lie is to tell some truth.

Joe Yao		hadron!jsdy@seismo.{ARPA,UUCP}
Re: Thor (spoiler) [message #113683 is a reply to message #111778] Tue, 17 September 2013 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jsdy is currently offline  jsdy
Messages: 20
Registered: June 2013
Karma: 0
Junior Member
Message-ID: <119@hadron.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 24-Feb-85 23:57:33 EST
Article-I.D.: hadron.119
Posted: Sun Feb 24 23:57:33 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 1-Mar-85 09:18:23 EST
References: <29300002@hpfclg.UUCP>
Organization: Hadron, Inc., Fairfax, VA
Lines: 39

[color=blue]>  [Tiwaz ...]					...  Is there *any*[/color]
[color=blue]>  mythological basis to this?[/color]

When I pulled out the Prose Edda, I realised I hadn't looked through it
in a dozen years.  (Fie, for shame, etc.)  Snorri Sturlson has a good
Christian prologue reminding the reader that these are just stories,
and that one should worship God rather than these pagan gods.  He goes
on to trace the Aesir's descent from Troy (!), saying that they are also
called Asians (!).  Contemporary experts suggest that this material was
original to Snorri (he made it up), and that the rest of the material
does not follow exactly the earlier songs (cf, e.g., the Poetic or
Elder Edda).  But, just for fun:

Snorri says that in Troy, Munon or Mennon married a daughter of Priam
(and, presumably, Helen) named Troan.  Their son was Tror, or Thor (!)
who took over Thrace, or Thrudheim, at age 12.  He married Sif, and
17 generations later came Finn, his son Friallaf or Fridleif, and his
son Voden or Odin whose wife was Frigida or Frigg.  And so forth ...
Supposedly all the "gods" were these almost-magical and praeternaturally
handsome Asians who came to live in Scandinavia.

Now the first part of the Prose Edda, after this Prologue, is called
The Deluding of Gylfi.  Gylfi supposedly was a good but slightly
simple king of Sweden.  He gets told all the old myths, by spirits
who are supposed to be deluding him.  Among them is the story of the
primeval frost giant, Ymir.  In his time, before Earth and time, some
of the frost thawed and became the cow Audhumla.  She licked a salty
ice block, and formed Buri.  Buri's son Bor married Bestla and got
Odin, Vili, and Ve.  Odin's sons include Thor, Baldr, and (?) Loki.

This story is sometimes confused with Odin's search for knowledge,
in which he traded his eye for much.

In the proper names above, all the 'd's are really thorn's, except in
Baldr where it really is a d.  Accented letters are drawn without
accents 'cause y'all have widely divergent special character sets or
none at all.

Joe Yao		hadron!jsdy@seismo.{ARPA,UUCP}
Re: Thor (spoiler) [message #114966 is a reply to message #111778] Wed, 18 September 2013 15:42 Go to previous message
bothner is currently offline  bothner
Messages: 6
Registered: September 2013
Karma: 0
Junior Member
Message-ID: <3582@Shasta.ARPA>
Date: Wed, 6-Mar-85 03:08:06 EST
Article-I.D.: Shasta.3582
Posted: Wed Mar  6 03:08:06 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 8-Mar-85 04:11:49 EST
References: <29300002@hpfclg.UUCP> <119@hadron.UUCP>
Organization: Stanford University
Lines: 17

[color=blue]>  [/color]
[color=blue]>  Snorri says that in Troy, Munon or Mennon married a daughter of Priam[/color]
[color=blue]>  (and, presumably, Helen) named Troan.  Their son was Tror, or Thor (!)[/color]

Nobody else has remarked on this false assumption.
I don't know if people don't know, or don't care, but I care, so:

Priam, king of Troy, was married to \Hecuba/.
They had a number of children. One of their sons was Paris,
who seduced Helen, wife of Menelaus, king of Sparta.
Their elopement started the Trojan war.

There is a genealogy of "The Royal House of Troy" facing page 213
of my copy of Bulfinch's Mythology (Avenel edition). It doesn't
mention any "Troan", but then it doesn't claim to be exhaustive...
	--Per Bothner
ARPA: bothner@su-score	UUCP: {ucbvax,decwrl}!shasta!bothner
Re: Thor (spoiler) [message #116882 is a reply to message #111778] Mon, 11 March 1985 19:38 Go to previous message
jsdy is currently offline  jsdy
Messages: 20
Registered: June 2013
Karma: 0
Junior Member
Article-I.D.: hadron.128
Posted: Mon Mar 11 19:38:13 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 15-Mar-85 01:26:44 EST
References: <29300002@hpfclg.UUCP> <119@hadron.UUCP> <3582@Shasta.ARPA>
Organization: Hadron, Inc., Fairfax, VA
Lines: 12

[color=teal]>>  Snorri says that in Troy, Munon or Mennon married a daughter of Priam[/color]
[color=teal]>>  (and, presumably, Helen) named Troan.  Their son was Tror, or Thor (!)[/color]
[color=blue]>  [/color]
[color=blue]>  Nobody else has remarked on this false assumption.[/color]

I apologise for confusing Priam with Paris, and thus dragging Helen
into this.  Yes, according to Homer (whom I will not confuse with Hoyle),
Hecuba was Priam's wife.  At least I'll believe so, since I'm at work
and my Homer is at Home.  For the rest -- didn't I say that Snorri
was making a lot of this up?	;-)

Joe Yao		hadron!jsdy@seismo.{ARPA,UUCP}
  Switch to threaded view of this topic Create a new topic Submit Reply
Previous Topic: Cloak & Dagger #1: what happened?
Next Topic: Japanese Animation - Lupin
Goto Forum:
  

-=] Back to Top [=-
[ Syndicate this forum (XML) ] [ RSS ] [ PDF ]

Current Time: Fri Mar 29 02:07:42 EDT 2024

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.00327 seconds