| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377979 is a reply to message #377876] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 02:20   |
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Originally posted by: AndyW
On 10/12/2018 12:03, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 08:37:07 +0000
> AndyW <Andy@nojunqmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 09/12/2018 16:38, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> Solar hot water - to be built into the wall of an outbuilding
>>> beside the house. I'm not buying commercial panels though, building the
>>> panels into the wall makes it a DIY job - more fun that way too.
>>
>> Vacuum tube solar water heating is remarkably effective. Not as much fun
>> and DIY solar but the top gets so hot it can give you a burn through to
>> the muscle.
>
> I know - but you can get flat plate up to 70-80C too it just loses
> more heat so you need more area to compensate. It's a trade off between
> efficiency and cost/fun. I'm planning four 8'x4' panels in the wall (12
> m^2), I could probably use less than half that with vacuum tubes to similar
> effect but the design is very cheap and if it's not good enough I can
> always change it around later.
Fun wins every time.
Definition: Engineer, a person who will spend £100 to solve a £10 problem.
:-)
Andy
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377980 is a reply to message #377879] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 02:37 |
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Originally posted by: AndyW
On 10/12/2018 12:35, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On 10 Dec 2018 10:46:02 GMT
> Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-12-10, AndyW <Andy@nojunqmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 09/12/2018 17:59, Huge wrote:
>>>> On 2018-12-09, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>>
>>>> > YMMV based on insolation characteristics and local cost of
>>>> > electricity; in California,
>>>>
>>>> Bingo. In cloudy UK, not so much. Sometimes at this time of year,
>>>> especially if an Atlantic High comes and sits over the country we may
>>>> not see any sun at all for several weeks at a time.
>>>
>>> I live in Scotland with a 4kW system and I am online for a payback
>>> within 10 years.
>>
>> So, already the previously quoted figures are shown to be wrong.
>
> The "typically 6-7 years payback" figure ? That's for better
> climates than Scotland - south of London should achieve it easily if
> Scotland can manage 10 years.
>
>> moneysavingexpert.com says that all other things being equal, a medium
>> sized house in the UK midlands will take ~22 years to recover the cost of
>> the panels. (By which time they'll be knackered.) And that figure includes
>
> I notice they paid 6500 for the panels instead of the 4000 Andy
> paid - the rest doesn't quite square with Andy's figures but their's are
> theoretical (presumably on the average to pessimistic) and his are measured.
You also need to factor in that I am actively managing my use during
generation times and my panels face directly south.
As an engineer (or geek depending on your view, I'll accept either) I
have ITTT systems to monitor my web-connected inverter and I switch on
various consumer units when required.
My hot tub and some computers are always on but when generation exceeds
1kw I can switch on my drier (heat pump technology so low power) and/or
washer. I can also switch in other systems (oven, crock pot, boiler) as
I have a lot of remotely controllable switches.
Not everyone will be able to do this but it shows that it can be done.
I have a friend who is off-grid for gas and so uses his panels to charge
storage heaters in his house. He has wood pelleted central heating for
peak demand but panels are saving him a fortune. Basically free house
heating.
The other factor is the FIT scheme (Feed-in tariff) basically a primer
to get the industry going. It started at 48p per unit generated back
when a domestic system would cost £20k. I get 12p per unit and my set up
was £4k. The FIT scheme is now 4p per unit.
Technically it is paid on 50% generation assuming that you feed 50% back
to the grid. In reality I use most of what I generate so I am benefiting
under the scheme. Many people will feed in more than they get paid for.
Andy
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377981 is a reply to message #376693] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 02:40 |
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Originally posted by: AndyW
On 10/12/2018 13:14, Huge wrote:
> (Did Andy(?) install his own panels? If so, did he factor in the cost
> of his own labour? I'd wager yes and no, respectively.)
I was not allowed to.
Under the FIT scheme in the UK you needed to use an approved installer
and they supply an installation certificate that allows you to enter the
scheme.
The £4k was all in cost. They turned up and installed the whole thing in
a morning.
Andy
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377982 is a reply to message #376693] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 02:49 |
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Originally posted by: AndyW
On 10/12/2018 14:55, Huge wrote:
> On 2018-12-10, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Most UK installs are on the roof of a 2 storey building; you won't be doing
> that in 6 hours. And these days most installers will want scaffolding putting
> up, even *that* is going to take longer than 6 hours.
In my case it was a 2 storey house. Scaffolding will take > 6 hour if
you use the old fashioned stuff heavy steel and wooden board. The
installers had lightweight folding scaffolding. I have a garden to the
front so they could not use their scaffold tower but even then the
folding scaffold was up in about a half hour. Basically folding box
section about a metre high and then they clip in aluminium scaffold
boards for rigidity. We use a similar system where I work.
While the installers were setting up the scaffolding the electrician was
installing the inverter. By the time the inverter and meter were
installed the panels were going in on the roof.
I offered them a coffee at lunchtime but declined as they were off to
install another system in the afternoon.
Andy
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377983 is a reply to message #377898] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 02:52 |
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Originally posted by: AndyW
On 10/12/2018 18:31, maus wrote:
> Until the next windy day. I know places in the mountains where the
> sun only rises about 11 in the morning, and sets about two.
Mine has withstood gales with no issues.
Not sure what the point of the mountains and daylight is.
Andy
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377984 is a reply to message #377878] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 02:57 |
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Originally posted by: AndyW
On 10/12/2018 12:04, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 08:45:50 +0000
> AndyW <Andy@nojunqmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I live in Scotland with a 4kW system and I am online for a payback
>> within 10 years. Even on a cloudy day I generate. On a clear sunny day
>> in summer I generate about 3.5kW. We had a sunny morning yesterday and
>> even with the low sun I managed about 2kW.
>
> Have you dropped your h's ? Ten years is about what I calculated
> for North Kerry so it's good to hear confirmation.
No I get reports on instant (actually per second) generation in kW. I
don't bother with kWh as that requires me to get on my knees in the
cupboard and look at the meter with a torch.
I could capture the data and do the maths but I find KW and the daily
graph are enough for me.
Andy
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377985 is a reply to message #377979] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 03:39 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
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On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 07:20:28 +0000
AndyW <Andy@nojunqmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/12/2018 12:03, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> I know - but you can get flat plate up to 70-80C too it just
>> loses more heat so you need more area to compensate. It's a trade off
>> between efficiency and cost/fun. I'm planning four 8'x4' panels in the
>> wall (12 m^2), I could probably use less than half that with vacuum
>> tubes to similar effect but the design is very cheap and if it's not
>> good enough I can always change it around later.
>
> Fun wins every time.
> Definition: Engineer, a person who will spend £100 to solve a £10 problem.
> :-)
Damn busted! Still
Designer: A person who will add £500 in decoration to the £100 solution of
a £10 problem.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377986 is a reply to message #377921] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 05:21 |
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Originally posted by: AndyW
On 10/12/2018 21:06, maus wrote:
> I remember when WiFi was getting popular, a guy from around where ora.com is, wrote a
> book on installing your own, (one variation was using Pringle tubes). After writing
> the book, he slipped off a roof and was a long time recovering. Forget the name.
As a radio amateur falling of roof is an ever present risk when setting
up you own antennas. I know of a few people who have done it. Since
radio tends to be skewed to the older gentleman demographic, shuffling
about the roof or up a ladder has killed quite a few.
However my Cantenna for wifi have always been low level. They work
surprisingly well and all you to tap into wifi at quite a distance.
I used a couple at home until plug in wifi repeaters became cheap and
easy to use.
....and you get to eat the pringles to obtain the empty can.
Andy
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377987 is a reply to message #377924] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 05:22 |
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Originally posted by: AndyW
On 10/12/2018 21:11, Andy Burns wrote:
> AndyW wrote:
>
>> On a clear sunny day in summer I generate about 3.5kW. We had a sunny
>> morning yesterday and even with the low sun I managed about 2kW.
>
> Should we read those as kWh ?
No, it's an instantaneous figure so no time component.
Technically updates every second but basically instantaneous.
Andy
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377988 is a reply to message #377936] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 05:31 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
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On 2018-12-10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 10 Dec 2018 21:02:00 GMT
> maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-12-10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On 10 Dec 2018 18:35:42 GMT
>>> maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In Ireland, repair work on rooftops is very, very, expensive to insure,
>>>> and rightly impossible without scaffolding. The decisive point was
>>>> about 14 feet.
>>>
>>> Yet when the Imagine crew came to install my LTE broadband they
>>> first tried the unit by the wall, then on a pole held by the gable and
>>> finally one of them walked up the roof with the pole, tried it next to
>>> the chimney, pronounced it good and proceeded to lash it into place.
>>> The man who installed my pellet burner did much the same when he fitted
>>> the cowl to the flue. Similarly the crew that the original builder (not
>>> employed by me) sent to repair the ridge tiles that blew off in the
>>> first gale after the house was built used no scaffold, just a couple of
>>> roof ladders.
>>>
>>
>> All grand until someone falls.
>
> Sure but each one of those was employed by a company that provided
> their roof going gear and expected them to do it that way. How they squared
> it with their insurance is anybody's guess.
>
No, its your guess. When something bad happens, the victims look around
for someone with money. I would not let anyone around the place for
doing a dangerous job without checking _their_ insurance cert.
--
Maus@ireland.com
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377989 is a reply to message #377963] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 05:34 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
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On 2018-12-11, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 17:15:51 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
> <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
>> On 9 Dec 2018 21:48:40 GMT, maus wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2018-12-09, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> , would France use the aircraft carrier to bomb the UK one day and The UK
>>> use it to bomb France the next?. "Catch 22", how are ye.
>>
>> But how likely is that the UK and France wage war?
>>
>> Although when in WWII France was about to be overrun by the Nazis the UK
>> asked France to surrender her warships. As France declined UK destroyers
>> shelled and sunk them, although France was an ally.
>
> Which battle are you thinking of? The only record I can find of the
> British sinking French ships was Mers-El-Kebir which was mostly a
> battleship engagement in North Africa.
That was surely what he meant. There were a lot of French sailors killed
and the French are still sore about it.
--
Maus@ireland.com
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377991 is a reply to message #377986] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 05:39 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
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On 2018-12-11, AndyW <Andy@nojunqmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/12/2018 21:06, maus wrote:
>> I remember when WiFi was getting popular, a guy from around where ora.com is, wrote a
>> book on installing your own, (one variation was using Pringle tubes). After writing
>> the book, he slipped off a roof and was a long time recovering. Forget the name.
>
> As a radio amateur falling of roof is an ever present risk when setting
> up you own antennas. I know of a few people who have done it. Since
> radio tends to be skewed to the older gentleman demographic, shuffling
> about the roof or up a ladder has killed quite a few.
> However my Cantenna for wifi have always been low level. They work
> surprisingly well and all you to tap into wifi at quite a distance.
> I used a couple at home until plug in wifi repeaters became cheap and
> easy to use.
>
> ...and you get to eat the pringles to obtain the empty can.
>
> Andy
>
Probably, those that eat the Pringles are in more danger than those
falling off the roof. :)
--
Maus@ireland.com
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377992 is a reply to message #377937] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 05:41 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
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On 2018-12-10, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> maus <mausg@mail.com> writes:
>
> Some bad examples there.
>
> When jobs can be done by less people, you get automated out of a job.
> For rubbish collection, the usual trash truck crew of 3 is now down to 1
> using a loader on the front of the truck, the driver never leaves his
> seat. Carpenters and plumbers, nifty tools. Lots of tech in most of
> the manual labor jobs including prefab, done in factories where more
> machines come into play. I see lots of machines at work in fields on TV
> shows. I like that machine that shakes nuts out of trees.
>
Would be very handy on a pro-Global Warming website. ;)
--
Maus@ireland.com
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377993 is a reply to message #377928] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 05:42 |
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Originally posted by: AndyW
On 10/12/2018 21:22, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:
>> AndyW wrote:
>>
>>> On a clear sunny day in summer I generate about 3.5kW. We had a sunny
>>> morning yesterday and even with the low sun I managed about 2kW.
>>
>> Should we read those as kWh ?
>
> I hope not, that would be pretty pathetic.
In the UK you are limited as to how much power you can generate and feed
into the grid before you are classed as a commercial generator and then
you need to comply with a lot of regs that makes it pointless to try to
feed in.
My set up is a 4kW system (the maximum) and I live at 56 degree north so
2kW in the winter is fairly decent in the winter.
> The amount generated by the panels varies throughout the day
> in a sort of bell curve. The 3.5KW is the peak instantanteous
> generation at the top of the bell curve.
>
> Typically, in the summertime, I peak at about the same (3.8Kw) and
> generate somewhere north of 35Kwh each sunny day (every summer day is
> sunny and clear around these parts). In the winter, the peak
> (due to sun angle, mainly) is closer to 2.2Kw and daily generation is
> in the 4 to 10 Kwh range depending on the weather (it's rainy season).
In the summer where I live it gets dark for maybe 4 hours, the rest of
the time my panels generate. In June the sun comes up about 5am and it
sets about 10pm. There is good twilight for an hour or two before and
after so I guess it all balances out. I will get 3.5kW for maybe 6 to 8
hours and a little less either end tending to zero. This last summer was
a bumper year as we had uncharacteristically clear skies for months.
I can drive 3 hours north and read a newspaper in June at midnight by
the twilight so we get a lot of sunshine in the summer.
I can generate maybe 30-35kWh in a good summer day.
Andy
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377994 is a reply to message #377977] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 05:48 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
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On 2018-12-11, AndyW <Andy@nojunqmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/12/2018 23:57, Joy Beeson wrote:
>> It's been going on for decades, but I'm still gobsmacked when I see
>> tomatoes picked by combines going to the cannery in dump trucks.
>
> The downside to this is that the tomatoes have been bred for the ability
> to survive the automated handling and flavour goes out the window.
> Commercial tomatoes are bred for resilience and long shelf life to
> maximise profit.
> I grow heritage varieties that bruise easily and last a day but the have
> an amazing flavour. With a little more money and time maybe they could
> have bred flavour in as well.
>
> Andy
>
I had a neighbour who would give the neighbours surplus tomatoes.
Amazing flavour.
I think you can buy those sort of tomatoes in Supermarkets,
in bunches, a couple of times dearer than the ordinary ones.
I also heard that in 'improving' the breeds of tomato, somebody
bred one that grew into a cube.
--
Maus@ireland.com
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377995 is a reply to message #377968] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 05:48 |
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Originally posted by: AndyW
On 11/12/2018 03:30, J. Clarke wrote:
> Around here the installed cost of a 4KW array is about $15,000 and
> that does not include another $3000-5000 to take down several trees
> which would be necessary if it was to be effective.
>
> I suspect I could make more off of that amount of money by investing
> it in the right securities.
It is never going to be a one size fits all but if it works for you then
fine otherwise fine.
I keep getting people telling me that solar does not work despite the
fact that it works fine for me.
I have a fried who lives mostly off grid and has his own solar thermal
system, solar PV and wind generator and battery set up yet people will
patiently explain to him that solar and wind do not work despite the
fact that he has been off grid for about 4 years when a storm took out
his power line and he agreed with the electricity company to not bother
fixing it.
He also has log burners and a pelleted wood central heating system.
Andy
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377996 is a reply to message #377940] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 05:50 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
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On 2018-12-10, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:
>
> G> maus wrote:
>>
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>
>>>> maus wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > I am actually thinking of buying one.
>>>>
>>>> Is there not an issue of requiring tax and insurance on those ?
>>>
>>> I will have to ask. I tend to think of things like that for a while
>>> before actually spending money. The weight is more of a problem.
>>
>> I'm sure Ireland will have its own rules, but in the UK
>>
>> <https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules>
>
> This is odd:
>
> should not be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling more than
> 15.5mph
>
> How come a UK government web site is showing speeds in mph?
>
They never changed. Driving from Dublin to Belfast, the first real notice
that you are in a different country is the speed limits in MPH.
--
Maus@ireland.com
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377997 is a reply to message #377978] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 05:53 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
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On 2018-12-11, AndyW <Andy@nojunqmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/12/2018 22:42, Dan Espen wrote:
>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:
>> This is odd:
>>
>> should not be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling more than
>> 15.5mph
>>
>> How come a UK government web site is showing speeds in mph?
>
> Because the UK, although metric, retains the use of mph for road signs
> and pints for pubs.
> Most liquids are sold in litres but beer is still in pints. Car speedos
> are in mph and kph.
>
> I'm a glider pilot and I use an odd combination of knots for speed, feet
> for altitude and km for distance.
>
> Science, engineering and similar use metric.
>
> Andy
>
Many years ago, I was in the market in Orleans, France. Vegetables wee sold
in something called, like, "Poids de Orleans "
--
Maus@ireland.com
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377998 is a reply to message #376693] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 05:39 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
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On 11 Dec 2018 10:04:58 GMT
Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2018-12-11, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 07:20:28 +0000
>> AndyW <Andy@nojunqmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/12/2018 12:03, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>
>>>> I know - but you can get flat plate up to 70-80C too it just
>>>> loses more heat so you need more area to compensate. It's a trade off
>>>> between efficiency and cost/fun. I'm planning four 8'x4' panels in
>>>> the wall (12 m^2), I could probably use less than half that with
>>>> vacuum tubes to similar effect but the design is very cheap and if
>>>> it's not good enough I can always change it around later.
>>>
>>> Fun wins every time.
>>> Definition: Engineer, a person who will spend £100 to solve a £10
>>> problem. :-)
>>
>> Damn busted! Still
>>
>> Designer: A person who will add £500 in decoration to the £100 solution
>> of a £10 problem.
>
> Businessperson: Someone who charges £1500 for the end result.
Salesman: Someone who makes you think you got a bargin.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #377999 is a reply to message #377985] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 06:03 |
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Originally posted by: AndyW
On 11/12/2018 08:39, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 07:20:28 +0000
> AndyW <Andy@nojunqmail.com> wrote:
>> Fun wins every time.
>> Definition: Engineer, a person who will spend £100 to solve a £10 problem.
>> :-)
>
> Damn busted! Still
>
> Designer: A person who will add £500 in decoration to the £100 solution of
> a £10 problem.
Designer: A person who will add £500 in decoration. The actual solution
is optional.
Marketing: A department that will add £500 to a solution for a problem
that you never had but you bought it anyway.
Andy
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378000 is a reply to message #376693] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 06:05 |
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Originally posted by: AndyW
On 11/12/2018 10:04, Huge wrote:
> On 2018-12-11, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 07:20:28 +0000
>> AndyW <Andy@nojunqmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/12/2018 12:03, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>
>>>> I know - but you can get flat plate up to 70-80C too it just
>>>> loses more heat so you need more area to compensate. It's a trade off
>>>> between efficiency and cost/fun. I'm planning four 8'x4' panels in the
>>>> wall (12 m^2), I could probably use less than half that with vacuum
>>>> tubes to similar effect but the design is very cheap and if it's not
>>>> good enough I can always change it around later.
>>>
>>> Fun wins every time.
>>> Definition: Engineer, a person who will spend £100 to solve a £10 problem.
>>> :-)
>>
>> Damn busted! Still
>>
>> Designer: A person who will add £500 in decoration to the £100 solution of
>> a £10 problem.
>
> Businessperson: Someone who charges £1500 for the end result.
Consultant: Someone borrows your watch to tell you the time and then
bills you for it.
Andy
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378001 is a reply to message #377964] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 06:07 |
mausg
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On 2018-12-11, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10 Dec 2018 21:11:09 GMT, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-12-10, Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
>>>> 40 Years of the 'Fighter Mafia', An informal group begun by Col. John
>>>> Boyd and mathematician Tom Christie calls for military reform--by doing
>>>> more with less.
>>>> https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/40-years-of -the-fighter-mafia/
>>>
>>> re:
>>> <a href="#79">http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018f.html#79</a> Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth?
>>> <a href="#80">http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018f.html#80</a> Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth?
>>>
>>> Boyd is also credited with the "left hook" land war battle plan for
>>> Desert Storm ... Desert Storm was 42day, only last 100hrs was land
>>> war. GAO Air Effectiveness study has A10 taking out Iraqi tanks so
>>> easily that the Iraqi crews were walking away from the tanks as sitting
>>> ducks ... A10 sort of had turkey shoot ... firing total of million 30mm
>>> shells during Desert Storm. Land war description of fierce tank battles
>>> with coalition forces taking no damage, don't mention if the Iraqi tanks
>>> had anyboyd home. Burton's "Pentagon Wars" has him getting the cost of
>>> 30mm shells down from >$80 to $13 (million shells, $13m).
>>
>> The problem with many of those shells was that being filled with 'depleted
>> uraniuum', the residue will be still killing people in many years time.m
>
> How will it be doing that? Do you know the LD50 for depleted uranium?
> How will people get that much exposure?
I rely on Iraqi sources, saying that children cancers are much higher
than before GulfWarII. I would also rely on stories that in training
in the US, depleted uranium shot can only be fired under very limited
ways, using ways that will not allow the DU to not get into the
Athmosphere.
One of the other sad thing about the Iraqi invasion is the way that
a large part of the resident Christian population had to flee, as the
Muslims thought that they had some connection with the USA.
--
Maus@ireland.com
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378002 is a reply to message #377996] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 06:10 |
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Originally posted by: AndyW
On 11/12/2018 10:50, maus wrote:
> They never changed. Driving from Dublin to Belfast, the first real notice
> that you are in a different country is the speed limits in MPH.
My experience (although it may have changed) is that on driving from
Northern Ireland to the republic there were loads of petrol stations
just over the border to sell cheap petrol to the people from NI.
So much nicer than passing through barricades and machine gun posts of old.
Andy
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378003 is a reply to message #377966] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 06:11 |
mausg
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On 2018-12-11, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10 Dec 2018 11:42:35 GMT, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-12-10, Christian Brunschen <cb@elaine.df.lth.se> wrote:
>>> In article <1093074921.566095739.364855.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> If I remember rightly, landing and takeoff from Kennedy (Idelwild?)
>> caused an awesome amount of noise.
>>
>> The English did not mind,. it was not done to criticise "This Great
>> British innovation"
>
> Excuse me, but how is the Tuplev 144, designed by Alexei Tupolev of
> the Tupolev Design Bureau, Moscow, Soviet Union, and built by the
> Voronezh Aircraft Production Association, Voronezh, Soviet Union,
> "This Great British Innovation"?
a
I was referring to the Concorde.
It was _notdone_ to point out that the Concorde was a White Elephant.
--
Maus@ireland.com
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378004 is a reply to message #377967] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 06:15 |
mausg
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On 2018-12-11, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10 Dec 2018 10:13:30 GMT, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-12-10, AndyW <Andy@nojunqmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 09/12/2018 11:17, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> You seem to have a negative attitude toward Sitka Spruce. You might
>>>> want to look into its history--during WWII, 7782 deHavilland
>>>> Mosquitoes, widely regarded as the most versatile aircraft in the war
>>>> and until jets came along the fastest in general service, were
>>>> constructed of Sitka Spruce. Sitka Spruce was chosen because it has
>>>> the highest strength-to-weight ratio of any commercial timber
>>>> available at the time.
>>>
>>> Ahhh now there was an aircraft. The thing of beauty.
>>>
>>> Andy
>>
>> As opposed to the "Spruce Goose?"
>
> If the war had still been on, Hughes would probably have gotten a
> production contract and it might have seen a good bit of service, but
> no, it didn't have the versatility of the Mosquito.
If I remember the story correctly, Hughes would get a lot of his money
back _if_ the plane ever flew at all. With a great amount of effort, it did
get into the air for a few moments, then was towed away to storage.
--
Maus@ireland.com
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378007 is a reply to message #377901] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 06:52 |
Andrew Swallow
Messages: 1705
Registered: January 2012
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On 10/12/2018 18:55, Bill Findlay wrote:
> On 9 Dec 2018, J. Clarke wrote
> (in article<80oo0etftmem6ngbsesi4jo7tq2r1dnha2@4ax.com>):
>
>> On Sat, 08 Dec 2018 18:24:47 +0000, Bill Findlay
>> <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8 Dec 2018, maus wrote
>>> (in article <slrnq0npm6.1lm.mausg@dmaus.org>):
>>>
>>>> Voltaire criticised the Romanists, but hedged his bets by having a Catholic
>>>> funeral.
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>
>> He did criticise the Romanists and he did have a Catholic burial, so
>> you must be asserting that the motivation for doing so is something
>> other than a "hedging of bets". Do you have evidence of the
>> motivation?
>
> Do YOU have evidence that HE hedged his bets? Hmm?
>
> It is a tedious trope of believers in the supernatural that non-theists
> are wont to "see the light" on their death beds.
>
> Many, if not all, of these stories are lies. In the case of David Hume,
> for example, we have no less an authority than James Boswell for
> the truth of the matter.
>
> But Lying For The Lord is doing the Lord's Work.
> So that's OK.
>
> I am reminded of the passages in Josephus that are claimed to
> prove the existence of the transcendental fig tree destroyer.
> Modern theologians accept that these are "interpolations".
> The language used in any other context would be "fakes".
>
If the man did not convert on his death bed then the story tellers are
breaking the 10 Commandments by committing the sin of 'false witness'
against him.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378008 is a reply to message #377988] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 06:58 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
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On 11 Dec 2018 10:31:19 GMT
maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-12-10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On 10 Dec 2018 21:02:00 GMT
>> maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-12-10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On 10 Dec 2018 18:35:42 GMT
>>>> maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > In Ireland, repair work on rooftops is very, very, expensive to
>>>> > insure, and rightly impossible without scaffolding. The decisive
>>>> > point was about 14 feet.
>>>>
>>>> Yet when the Imagine crew came to install my LTE broadband
>>>> they first tried the unit by the wall, then on a pole held by the
>>>> gable and finally one of them walked up the roof with the pole,
>>>> tried it next to the chimney, pronounced it good and proceeded to
>>>> lash it into place. The man who installed my pellet burner did much
>>>> the same when he fitted the cowl to the flue. Similarly the crew
>>>> that the original builder (not employed by me) sent to repair the
>>>> ridge tiles that blew off in the first gale after the house was
>>>> built used no scaffold, just a couple of roof ladders.
>>>>
>>>
>>> All grand until someone falls.
>>
>> Sure but each one of those was employed by a company that
>> provided their roof going gear and expected them to do it that way. How
>> they squared it with their insurance is anybody's guess.
>>
>
> No, its your guess. When something bad happens, the victims look around
> for someone with money. I would not let anyone around the place for
> doing a dangerous job without checking _their_ insurance cert.
If it's a contractor I'm employing then yes definitely. If it's
someone else's employee or contractor that they are sending as part of a
service that I'm buying then their use of safety equipment and following of
safety practices is not my responsibility, anyone trying hard enough to say
otherwise will meet a good lawyer head on.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378009 is a reply to message #377910] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 07:02 |
Andrew Swallow
Messages: 1705
Registered: January 2012
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On 10/12/2018 19:15, Cory Heisterkamp wrote:
> On Monday, December 10, 2018 at 2:45:55 AM UTC-6, AndyW wrote:
>> On 09/12/2018 17:59, Huge wrote:
>>> On 2018-12-09, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>
>>>> YMMV based on insolation characteristics and local cost of electricity;
>>>> in California,
>>>
>>> Bingo. In cloudy UK, not so much. Sometimes at this time of year, especially
>>> if an Atlantic High comes and sits over the country we may not see any sun at
>>> all for several weeks at a time.
>>
>> I live in Scotland with a 4kW system and I am online for a payback
>> within 10 years. Even on a cloudy day I generate. On a clear sunny day
>> in summer I generate about 3.5kW. We had a sunny morning yesterday and
>> even with the low sun I managed about 2kW.
>>
>>
>> Andy
>
> Here in the midwest USA, private PV solar has really been gaining traction, especially with land being available for small arrays (no roof top installs required). Our 10kW setup averages over 50kwH during sunny weather, but is especially efficient on cold winter days as along as I knock the snow off.
>
> I suspect those that claim PV isn't financially viable are looking at contractor quotes (double, triple material costs and a little labor). Those willing to roll-their-own will save substantially and can put in the time optimizing their design and selecting their own components rather than accept a generic contractor package that may not perform as well.
>
I suspect they are also using the price of PV and electricity from 10-20
years ago. The price reductions from Chinese mass production of solar
cells has made a big difference.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378010 is a reply to message #377934] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 07:09 |
Andrew Swallow
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On 10/12/2018 22:15, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On 9 Dec 2018 21:48:40 GMT, maus wrote:
>>
>> On 2018-12-09, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> There was a dispute between the UK and the Republic about a rock in the
>>>> atlantic called 'Rockall', Nobody lives on it, nobody could live on it.
>>>
>>> There is also a rock between Greenland (which belongs to Denmark) and
>>> Canada. Which now is not really important. But if the ice melts both
>>> Denmark and Canada are interested to get the oil there. And were at least
>>> engaged to rise their own flag on that island, while the other party came
>>> to swap it with their own flag
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Island#Google_fight>.
>>
>> Yes, I have read of that before. I think that it is more that Greenland is
>> associated with Denmark, rather than it belongs to it
>
> But Greenland must belong to some country, no?
>
>>> Imagine Canada and Denmark go to war. Both are parts of the NATO...
>>
>> Turkey and NATO??...
>
> Why do you bring up Turkey?
>
>> There was a thing about the UK and France going together to buy a
>> 'previously loved' US aircraft carrier. In case of a war between the two
>> , would France use the aircraft carrier to bomb the UK one day and The UK
>> use it to bomb France the next?. "Catch 22", how are ye.
>
> But how likely is that the UK and France wage war?
>
> Although when in WWII France was about to be overrun by the Nazis the UK
> asked France to surrender her warships. As France declined UK destroyers
> shelled and sunk them, although France was an ally.
>
c/was an ally./used to be an ally./
There is a big difference. France had become a collaborator.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378011 is a reply to message #377941] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 07:16 |
Andrew Swallow
Messages: 1705
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On 10/12/2018 22:43, Andy Burns wrote:
> Dan Espen wrote:
>
>> How come a UK government web site is showing speeds in mph?
>
> because we don't use kilometres or kph.
We also sell milk in pints. Housewives never metricated.
You are beginning to wonder into the real reasons the UK is leaving the
European Union.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378012 is a reply to message #378003] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 07:07 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
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On 11 Dec 2018 11:11:38 GMT
maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> It was _notdone_ to point out that the Concorde was a White Elephant.
It was all going so well until everyone (including the British)
said "no way are you going supersonic over our land". My brother had a
house in Twickenham for a while, under the flight path! I was unlucky
enough to experience Concorde taking off overhead - the whole building
shook bringing to mind Douglas Adam's wonderful phrase "a mind-buggering
noise".
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378014 is a reply to message #378011] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 07:58 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
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On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 12:16:32 +0000
Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 10/12/2018 22:43, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Dan Espen wrote:
>>
>>> How come a UK government web site is showing speeds in mph?
>>
>> because we don't use kilometres or kph.
>
> We also sell milk in pints. Housewives never metricated.
>
> You are beginning to wonder into the real reasons the UK is leaving the
> European Union.
The next will be a withdrawl from world cricket so they can have
whites and googlies back with nice leisurely games and none of this fast
paced modern stuff.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378015 is a reply to message #376693] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 09:09 |
scott
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Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
> On 2018-12-11, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
> P.S. We were awoken from our slumbers a couple of months ago by a loud
> bang. I thought at first the boiler (US: furnace) had exploded, but
> nothing untoward seemed to have happened, so I went back to bed.
>
> It was a couple of days before I discovered that it had been a
> Eurofighter Typhoon scrambled from RAF Marham, 'en route' to London
> Gatwick airport to escort a commercial airliner with a security
> issue. The Typhoon had been given permission to go supersonic 'en
> route'.
When they were landing the shuttles at Edwards, their inbound
flight path generally crossed the LA basin. The double-bang
of the sonic boom was quite noticable.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378017 is a reply to message #376693] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 10:01 |
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Originally posted by: Gareth's was W7 now W10 Downstairs Computer
On 11/12/2018 10:04, Huge wrote:
> On 2018-12-11, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 07:20:28 +0000
>> AndyW <Andy@nojunqmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/12/2018 12:03, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> Fun wins every time.
>>> Definition: Engineer, a person who will spend £100 to solve a £10 problem.
>> Damn busted! Still
>> Designer: A person who will add £500 in decoration to the £100 solution of
>> a £10 problem.
> Businessperson: Someone who charges £1500 for the end result.
Reminds me of the Six Phases Of A Project ...
Enthusiasm
Disillusionment
Panic
Search for the guilty
Punishment of the innocent
Praise and honours for the non-participants.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378018 is a reply to message #378002] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 11:34 |
mausg
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On 2018-12-11, AndyW <Andy@nojunqmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/12/2018 10:50, maus wrote:
>
>> They never changed. Driving from Dublin to Belfast, the first real notice
>> that you are in a different country is the speed limits in MPH.
>
> My experience (although it may have changed) is that on driving from
> Northern Ireland to the republic there were loads of petrol stations
> just over the border to sell cheap petrol to the people from NI.
>
> So much nicer than passing through barricades and machine gun posts of old.
>
> Andy
>
>
yes. That us one thing that makes me very F****** angry about the present
proposals.
Years ago, a man called Martin O'Donoghue made a smart proposal, do
away with car tax and raise the money by taxing fuel, the more you
used, the more you paid. Everyone below a certain distance of the
Border drove North (or South, in Donegal) to fill up.
--
Maus@ireland.com
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378019 is a reply to message #376693] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 11:36 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
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On 2018-12-11, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2018-12-11, AndyW <Andy@nojunqmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11/12/2018 10:50, maus wrote:
>>
>>> They never changed. Driving from Dublin to Belfast, the first real notice
>>> that you are in a different country is the speed limits in MPH.
>>
>> My experience (although it may have changed) is that on driving from
>> Northern Ireland to the republic there were loads of petrol stations
>> just over the border to sell cheap petrol to the people from NI.
>>
>> So much nicer than passing through barricades and machine gun posts of old.
>
> Oh, they'll be back. You can call it the Rees-Mogg Line.
>
You are aware that the company that Rees-Mogg owns has opened a Branch in
Dublin???.. Just in case.
--
Maus@ireland.com
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378021 is a reply to message #378010] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 11:45 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
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On 2018-12-11, Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 10/12/2018 22:15, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> On 9 Dec 2018 21:48:40 GMT, maus wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2018-12-09, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> > There was a dispute between the UK and the Republic about a rock in the
>>>> > atlantic called 'Rockall', Nobody lives on it, nobody could live on it.
>>>>
>> asked France to surrender her warships. As France declined UK destroyers
>> shelled and sunk them, although France was an ally.
>>
> c/was an ally./used to be an ally./
>
> There is a big difference. France had become a collaborator.
True.
HOWEVER, the reason for the bombardment was the Winston was afraid
that the Nazis would take over the French Fleet, and use it against
the UK. That turned out to be incorrect, as the rest of the French fleet
was anchored at Toulon, and was scuttled by the French when the Nazis
tried to take it over in 1943.
--
Maus@ireland.com
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378022 is a reply to message #378021] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 13:01 |
Andrew Swallow
Messages: 1705
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On 11/12/2018 16:45, maus wrote:
> On 2018-12-11, Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On 10/12/2018 22:15, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>> On 9 Dec 2018 21:48:40 GMT, maus wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 2018-12-09, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> There was a dispute between the UK and the Republic about a rock in the
>>>> >> atlantic called 'Rockall', Nobody lives on it, nobody could live on it.
>>>> >
>>> asked France to surrender her warships. As France declined UK destroyers
>>> shelled and sunk them, although France was an ally.
>>>
>> c/was an ally./used to be an ally./
>>
>> There is a big difference. France had become a collaborator.
>
> True.
>
> HOWEVER, the reason for the bombardment was the Winston was afraid
> that the Nazis would take over the French Fleet, and use it against
> the UK. That turned out to be incorrect, as the rest of the French fleet
> was anchored at Toulon, and was scuttled by the French when the Nazis
> tried to take it over in 1943.
>
>
In 1943 the French knew that if they did not scuttle the ships the
British would come and sink them.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #378024 is a reply to message #377937] |
Tue, 11 December 2018 13:42 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
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On Monday, December 10, 2018 at 5:32:39 PM UTC-5, Dan Espen wrote:
> When jobs can be done by less people, you get automated out of a job.
> For rubbish collection, the usual trash truck crew of 3 is now down to 1
> using a loader on the front of the truck, the driver never leaves his
> seat. Carpenters and plumbers, nifty tools. Lots of tech in most of
> the manual labor jobs including prefab, done in factories where more
> machines come into play. I see lots of machines at work in fields on TV
> shows. I like that machine that shakes nuts out of trees.
_Sometimes_ automation results in lower costs and lower consumer
prices. This results in more business and ends up with higher
employment. One example is the telephone company of the past. As
they implemented new technology over the years, the cost of long
distance calls dropped significantly, which resulted in higher calling
volume. In the 1970s they actually needed more telephone operators
than in the days of manual calls despite intensive automation by
then. Another example is housing. Levitt pushed mass production
of his Levittown houses which allowed lower prices and far more
sales since his houses were affordable by the masses.
However, _today_ I think that trend has mostly ended. IMHO, a
lot of automation has resulted in fewer jobs or lower paying jobs,
but no corresponding increase in consumer benefits. For instance,
banking is highly automated now, yet consumers don't get the benefits.
Construction has automation, but prices are high.
I guess computer gadgets are still cheap.
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