| Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376693] |
Mon, 26 November 2018 10:11  |
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Originally posted by: Gareth's Jim's Advent Computer
Whilst my Windows 7 PC is at the menders, and I am using the backstop on an
XP machine, I'm getting
not supported messages from FireFox.
Microsoft exhibits sharp practice by bringing out a version of Windows which
is not of merchantable quality because
of all the bugs in it and then instead of resolving the bugs, drops it like
a hot potato to bring out another bug ridden release.
There must be a legion of usable old machines out there which are candidates
for linux when Microsoft drop the installed version of Windows, so if linux
is the final solution, why not just install it in the first place and be
done with the shoddy workmanship of Microsoft?
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376700 is a reply to message #376693] |
Mon, 26 November 2018 11:08  |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 15:11:36 -0000, "Gareth's Jim's Advent Computer"
<no.email@thankyou.invalid> wrote:
> Whilst my Windows 7 PC is at the menders, and I am using the backstop on an
> XP machine, I'm getting
> not supported messages from FireFox.
>
> Microsoft exhibits sharp practice by bringing out a version of Windows which
> is not of merchantable quality because
> of all the bugs in it and then instead of resolving the bugs, drops it like
> a hot potato to bring out another bug ridden release.
Actually that practice has supposedly ended. Windows 10 is supposed
to be the _last_ release of Windows and will be updated continuously.
I prefer the old system. As part of the new system they decide when
to install updates unless you block their update site with an external
non-Windows firewall (yes, there are supposed to be registry settings
etc that allow you to block updates--they don't work).
Seems that every update kills one bug and creates three.
> There must be a legion of usable old machines out there which are candidates
> for linux when Microsoft drop the installed version of Windows, so if linux
> is the final solution, why not just install it in the first place and be
> done with the shoddy workmanship of Microsoft?
Why not just keep on with the old version of Windows? It works fine
until you try to install something that insists on a newer version and
most of the dreaded "security holes" can be closed with that same
external non-Windows firewall.
>
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376701 is a reply to message #376693] |
Mon, 26 November 2018 11:31 |
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Originally posted by: Robert Billing
> There must be a legion of usable old machines out there which are candidates
> for linux when Microsoft drop the installed version of Windows, so if linux
> is the final solution, why not just install it in the first place and be
> done with the shoddy workmanship of Microsoft?
For the last two decades I have either been buying machines and at once replacing windows with linux, or buying machines with no OS from Novatech and installing Linux from cold. This works very well.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376704 is a reply to message #376693] |
Mon, 26 November 2018 12:11 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 15:11:36 -0000, "Gareth's Jim's Advent Computer"
<no.email@thankyou.invalid> wrote:
> Whilst my Windows 7 PC is at the menders, and I am using the backstop on an
> XP machine, I'm getting
> not supported messages from FireFox.
>
> Microsoft exhibits sharp practice by bringing out a version of Windows which
> is not of merchantable quality because
> of all the bugs in it and then instead of resolving the bugs, drops it like
> a hot potato to bring out another bug ridden release.
>
> There must be a legion of usable old machines out there which are candidates
> for linux when Microsoft drop the installed version of Windows, so if linux
> is the final solution, why not just install it in the first place and be
> done with the shoddy workmanship of Microsoft?
One place I worked I found that even machines that were idle, not
being used, and other machines that had been redone so they had linux
on them, were still required by contract to pay MS a fee of
approximately $100 per year per unit.
I had to go through my desktops and find which ones were no longer in
use and turn them in for recycle so we could take them off the list of
equipment. Thereby getting rid of that fee.
Only thing I could get out of it when I asked why, was that it was in
the contract with MS. And one person told me I didn't understand.
Well, I think they were getting ripped off, but that person didn't
want to hear that.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376707 is a reply to message #376704] |
Mon, 26 November 2018 12:32 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 10:12:26 AM UTC-7, JimP wrote:
> Only thing I could get out of it when I asked why, was that it was in
> the contract with MS. And one person told me I didn't understand.
> Well, I think they were getting ripped off, but that person didn't
> want to hear that.
Maybe they had other machines with Windows on them, and by signing that sort of
contract, they got Windows at such a cheap rate per machine that it beat any other
option for the machines that did have Windows.
John Savard
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376709 is a reply to message #376700] |
Mon, 26 November 2018 12:50 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-11-26, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 15:11:36 -0000, "Gareth's Jim's Advent Computer"
> <no.email@thankyou.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Whilst my Windows 7 PC is at the menders, and I am using the backstop on an
>> XP machine, I'm getting not supported messages from FireFox.
>>
>> Microsoft exhibits sharp practice by bringing out a version of Windows which
>> is not of merchantable quality because of all the bugs in it and then instead
>> of resolving the bugs, drops it like a hot potato to bring out another bug
>> ridden release.
>
> Actually that practice has supposedly ended. Windows 10 is supposed
> to be the _last_ release of Windows and will be updated continuously.
It's all just semantics. The reality is - and has always been - that
one version (or release or whatever you want to call it) is replaced
by a newer one that doesn't work as well. As the saying goes about
an old, reliable piece of software: "It's a great improvement on its
successors."
> Why not just keep on with the old version of Windows? It works fine
> until you try to install something that insists on a newer version and
> most of the dreaded "security holes" can be closed with that same
> external non-Windows firewall.
My machines run native Linux. For the times when I need Windows,
I run a copy of XP under VirtualBox. In the unlikely event that
I should ever have to run a program that needs the latest version
of Windows, I'd look into Wine - or find another way of doing things.
There's no way that W10 is ever going to infest any of my machines.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ Fight low-contrast text in web pages! http://contrastrebellion.com
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376711 is a reply to message #376709] |
Mon, 26 November 2018 12:56 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 26 Nov 2018 17:50:10 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
> On 2018-11-26, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 15:11:36 -0000, "Gareth's Jim's Advent Computer"
>> <no.email@thankyou.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Whilst my Windows 7 PC is at the menders, and I am using the backstop on an
>>> XP machine, I'm getting not supported messages from FireFox.
>>>
>>> Microsoft exhibits sharp practice by bringing out a version of Windows which
>>> is not of merchantable quality because of all the bugs in it and then instead
>>> of resolving the bugs, drops it like a hot potato to bring out another bug
>>> ridden release.
>>
>> Actually that practice has supposedly ended. Windows 10 is supposed
>> to be the _last_ release of Windows and will be updated continuously.
>
> It's all just semantics. The reality is - and has always been - that
> one version (or release or whatever you want to call it) is replaced
> by a newer one that doesn't work as well. As the saying goes about
> an old, reliable piece of software: "It's a great improvement on its
> successors."
Funny how much better the "doesn't work as well" Windows 10 works than
did Windows 95.
>> Why not just keep on with the old version of Windows? It works fine
>> until you try to install something that insists on a newer version and
>> most of the dreaded "security holes" can be closed with that same
>> external non-Windows firewall.
>
> My machines run native Linux. For the times when I need Windows,
> I run a copy of XP under VirtualBox. In the unlikely event that
> I should ever have to run a program that needs the latest version
> of Windows, I'd look into Wine - or find another way of doing things.
> There's no way that W10 is ever going to infest any of my machines.
If it works for you, fine. It doesn't work for everybody. If my boss
found me trying to make something work with Wine rather than doing my
job I wouldn't have a job.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376712 is a reply to message #376707] |
Mon, 26 November 2018 13:04 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 09:32:32 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 10:12:26 AM UTC-7, JimP wrote:
>
>> Only thing I could get out of it when I asked why, was that it was in
>> the contract with MS. And one person told me I didn't understand.
>> Well, I think they were getting ripped off, but that person didn't
>> want to hear that.
>
> Maybe they had other machines with Windows on them, and by signing that sort of
> contract, they got Windows at such a cheap rate per machine that it beat any other
> option for the machines that did have Windows.
I keep hearing these tales but I've never actually seen anybody
provide any hard evidence to support them.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376714 is a reply to message #376711] |
Mon, 26 November 2018 13:11 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 12:56:49 -0500, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26 Nov 2018 17:50:10 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-11-26, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 15:11:36 -0000, "Gareth's Jim's Advent Computer"
>>> <no.email@thankyou.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Whilst my Windows 7 PC is at the menders, and I am using the backstop on an
>>>> XP machine, I'm getting not supported messages from FireFox.
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft exhibits sharp practice by bringing out a version of Windows which
>>>> is not of merchantable quality because of all the bugs in it and then instead
>>>> of resolving the bugs, drops it like a hot potato to bring out another bug
>>>> ridden release.
>>>
>>> Actually that practice has supposedly ended. Windows 10 is supposed
>>> to be the _last_ release of Windows and will be updated continuously.
>>
>> It's all just semantics. The reality is - and has always been - that
>> one version (or release or whatever you want to call it) is replaced
>> by a newer one that doesn't work as well. As the saying goes about
>> an old, reliable piece of software: "It's a great improvement on its
>> successors."
>
> Funny how much better the "doesn't work as well" Windows 10 works than
> did Windows 95.
I find that Win 7 works better thsn Win 10. Seems to me that once MS
got past Vista, the even numbered versions don't work well, whle the
odd numbered versions do. Kinda like linux odd and even numbered
versions.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376715 is a reply to message #376712] |
Mon, 26 November 2018 13:13 |
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Originally posted by: JimP
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 13:04:46 -0500, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 09:32:32 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
> <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 10:12:26 AM UTC-7, JimP wrote:
>>
>>> Only thing I could get out of it when I asked why, was that it was in
>>> the contract with MS. And one person told me I didn't understand.
>>> Well, I think they were getting ripped off, but that person didn't
>>> want to hear that.
>>
>> Maybe they had other machines with Windows on them, and by signing that sort of
>> contract, they got Windows at such a cheap rate per machine that it beat any other
>> option for the machines that did have Windows.
>
> I keep hearing these tales but I've never actually seen anybody
> provide any hard evidence to support them.
My bit or his ? Anyway, our costs dropped after we got rid of over 150
computers that weren't in use.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376720 is a reply to message #376711] |
Mon, 26 November 2018 16:17 |
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Originally posted by: terry-groups
On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 12:56:49 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> Funny how much better the "doesn't work as well" Windows 10 works than
> did Windows 95.
I have avoided Windows 10, so I've only seen / used it on other people's desktops. However...
Windows 95 was a definite improvement on Windows 3.x and it's glued-on-wart additions of Windows for Workgroups (integrated networking) and WIN32S (a preview of the 95 32-bit mode back-ported to 3.x). 95 had a number of things working against it, including a major change in hardware (Plug-n-play vs. jumpers, standardization of interface connectors, etc.) and a number of vendors who released not-ready-for-prime-time drivers using older development kits. By the time OEM Service Release 2 (OSR2) came around, it was pretty stable. And remember, back then MS had to get it (mostly) right "out of the box" - automatic updates were still a ways off.
As far as Windows XP, it is still supported by Microsoft if a) you are in certain embedded environments like PoS or ATMs, or pay them big $$$ for patches they already created to meet their service commitments anyway. I just saw 9 XP patches in the 11/2018 monthly rollup. Regular patch service is scheduled to end with the 4/2019 monthly rollup, but may be extended.
I expect Windows 7 will receive the same type of extended support.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376725 is a reply to message #376711] |
Mon, 26 November 2018 17:09 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-11-26, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26 Nov 2018 17:50:10 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-11-26, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Funny how much better the "doesn't work as well" Windows 10 works than
> did Windows 95.
One of the worst nights of my life was going to a presentation using Win95
amd watching the poor boobie's machine crash and crash again.
>
>>> Why not just keep on with the old version of Windows? It works fine
>>> until you try to install something that insists on a newer version and
>>> most of the dreaded "security holes" can be closed with that same
>>> external non-Windows firewall.
>>
>> My machines run native Linux. For the times when I need Windows,
>> I run a copy of XP under VirtualBox. In the unlikely event that
>> I should ever have to run a program that needs the latest version
>> of Windows, I'd look into Wine - or find another way of doing things.
>> There's no way that W10 is ever going to infest any of my machines.
>
> If it works for you, fine. It doesn't work for everybody. If my boss
> found me trying to make something work with Wine rather than doing my
> job I wouldn't have a job.
>
>
I wonder what happens when second-hand machines are sent to
some THird-World country where they are scrapped, and data recovered from
uncleaned hard drives.?
--
Maus@ireland.com
Will Rant For Food
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376736 is a reply to message #376725] |
Mon, 26 November 2018 18:53 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 26 Nov 2018 22:09:33 GMT, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-11-26, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 26 Nov 2018 17:50:10 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-11-26, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Funny how much better the "doesn't work as well" Windows 10 works than
>> did Windows 95.
>
>
> One of the worst nights of my life was going to a presentation using Win95
> amd watching the poor boobie's machine crash and crash again.
That's kind of sad. One would have expected him to get his
presentation debugged before presenting. OTOH, one thing that will
kill that generation of Windows is bad RAM, and a lot of machines
shipped with bad RAM and no way to detect it. I still have a dual
Xeon machine from that era with ECC RAM. It's always been rock solid
and one of these days I'm going to build myself another. Windows
seems unusually sensitive in that regard. I remember a Novell server
that had bad RAM but ran rock-stable, it just changed the values of
the data that flowed through it.
>>>> Why not just keep on with the old version of Windows? It works fine
>>>> until you try to install something that insists on a newer version and
>>>> most of the dreaded "security holes" can be closed with that same
>>>> external non-Windows firewall.
>>>
>>> My machines run native Linux. For the times when I need Windows,
>>> I run a copy of XP under VirtualBox. In the unlikely event that
>>> I should ever have to run a program that needs the latest version
>>> of Windows, I'd look into Wine - or find another way of doing things.
>>> There's no way that W10 is ever going to infest any of my machines.
>>
>> If it works for you, fine. It doesn't work for everybody. If my boss
>> found me trying to make something work with Wine rather than doing my
>> job I wouldn't have a job.
>>
>>
>
> I wonder what happens when second-hand machines are sent to
> some THird-World country where they are scrapped, and data recovered from
> uncleaned hard drives.?
If anybody in a third-world country cares to recover data from
uncleaned hard drives. I suspect that there's a lot less of that sort
of thing going on than the Be Very Afraid contingent would have us
believe.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376737 is a reply to message #376711] |
Mon, 26 November 2018 18:58 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26 Nov 2018 17:50:10 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-11-26, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 15:11:36 -0000, "Gareth's Jim's Advent Computer"
>>> <no.email@thankyou.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Whilst my Windows 7 PC is at the menders, and I am using the backstop on an
>>>> XP machine, I'm getting not supported messages from FireFox.
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft exhibits sharp practice by bringing out a version of Windows which
>>>> is not of merchantable quality because of all the bugs in it and then instead
>>>> of resolving the bugs, drops it like a hot potato to bring out another bug
>>>> ridden release.
>>>
>>> Actually that practice has supposedly ended. Windows 10 is supposed
>>> to be the _last_ release of Windows and will be updated continuously.
>>
>> It's all just semantics. The reality is - and has always been - that
>> one version (or release or whatever you want to call it) is replaced
>> by a newer one that doesn't work as well. As the saying goes about
>> an old, reliable piece of software: "It's a great improvement on its
>> successors."
>
> Funny how much better the "doesn't work as well" Windows 10 works than
> did Windows 95.
>
I thought XP was OK - not as good as OS/2, but usable. Wife had Vista on
her laptop, and it wasn't as good as XP. Granddaughter has windows 10 on
her laptop, and I think it's a piece of cr@p - it kept doing things to me
that I didn't expect when I tried to use it. Linux is nice, I run
Ubuntu/Mate, and it falls somewhere between OS/2 and XP in terms of
usability.
>>> Why not just keep on with the old version of Windows? It works fine
>>> until you try to install something that insists on a newer version and
>>> most of the dreaded "security holes" can be closed with that same
>>> external non-Windows firewall.
Or you discover that websites won't work with your version of FF, Chrome,
or whatever, and the newer versions require a new OS.
>>
>> My machines run native Linux. For the times when I need Windows,
>> I run a copy of XP under VirtualBox. In the unlikely event that
>> I should ever have to run a program that needs the latest version
>> of Windows, I'd look into Wine - or find another way of doing things.
>> There's no way that W10 is ever going to infest any of my machines.
>
> If it works for you, fine. It doesn't work for everybody. If my boss
> found me trying to make something work with Wine rather than doing my
> job I wouldn't have a job.
>
The problem with Wine (last I looked) is that it won't install software. I
read that someone had a commercial version that would, but never looked at
it.
--
Pete
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376738 is a reply to message #376736] |
Mon, 26 November 2018 19:01 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26 Nov 2018 22:09:33 GMT, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-11-26, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 26 Nov 2018 17:50:10 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2018-11-26, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Funny how much better the "doesn't work as well" Windows 10 works than
>>> did Windows 95.
>>
>>
>> One of the worst nights of my life was going to a presentation using Win95
>> amd watching the poor boobie's machine crash and crash again.
>
> That's kind of sad. One would have expected him to get his
> presentation debugged before presenting. OTOH, one thing that will
> kill that generation of Windows is bad RAM, and a lot of machines
> shipped with bad RAM and no way to detect it. I still have a dual
> Xeon machine from that era with ECC RAM. It's always been rock solid
> and one of these days I'm going to build myself another. Windows
> seems unusually sensitive in that regard. I remember a Novell server
> that had bad RAM but ran rock-stable, it just changed the values of
> the data that flowed through it.
Might better crash than corrupt your data.
--
Pete
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376756 is a reply to message #376736] |
Tue, 27 November 2018 01:36 |
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Originally posted by: terry-groups
On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 6:53:16 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> OTOH, one thing that will
> kill that generation of Windows is bad RAM, and a lot of machines
> shipped with bad RAM and no way to detect it.
There was a lot of bad hardware in that era, all the way down to the chipset level. I once interviewed (via a translator) the lead designer of a chipset and I asked why the previous chipset (ISA) was rock-solid but their new ISA+VLB chipset had cache coherency problems which led to crashes (I was running BSD/OS) and he said "Because Windows won't stay up that long anyway". Non-Windows systems weren't even a blip on their sales forecasts.
That era also brought us "logic" (AKA "fake") parity memory, where it was cheaper to put a part on the SIMM to generate the parity bit on reads rather than install a 9th RAM chip for real parity support.
There was also the difference between gold lead and tin lead memory modules, where using the wrong modules would cause flaky memory (and in the case of gold lead modules in tin lead sockets, permanently damage the sockets by "stubbing their toes" on the much harder gold-on-copper pads instead of the solder pads).
Also, there was the COAST (Cache On A STick) debacle, where the cache and tag RAM went in an optional socket instead of being part of the motherboard, causing all sorts of signal integrity issues. That's one of the reasons Intel soldered the cache RAM onto the first Slot 1 CPU boards (later boards moved it onto the CPU die).
And of course Intel wasn't blame-free either, having given us the FDIV bug just before Windows 95 came out and the F00F bug shortly thereafter. Not to mention other nasties lurking in the then-secret errata and the infamous Appendix H.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376761 is a reply to message #376725] |
Tue, 27 November 2018 04:13 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-11-26, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-11-26, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 26 Nov 2018 17:50:10 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-11-26, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Funny how much better the "doesn't work as well" Windows 10 works than
>> did Windows 95.
>
>
> One of the worst nights of my life was going to a presentation using Win95
s/Win95/Win98/ OOps
> amd watching the poor boobie's machine crash and crash again.
>
>
>>
>>>> Why not just keep on with the old version of Windows? It works fine
>>>> until you try to install something that insists on a newer version and
>>>> most of the dreaded "security holes" can be closed with that same
>>>> external non-Windows firewall.
>>>
>>> My machines run native Linux. For the times when I need Windows,
>>> I run a copy of XP under VirtualBox. In the unlikely event that
>>> I should ever have to run a program that needs the latest version
>>> of Windows, I'd look into Wine - or find another way of doing things.
>>> There's no way that W10 is ever going to infest any of my machines.
>>
>> If it works for you, fine. It doesn't work for everybody. If my boss
>> found me trying to make something work with Wine rather than doing my
>> job I wouldn't have a job.
>>
>>
>
> I wonder what happens when second-hand machines are sent to
> some THird-World country where they are scrapped, and data recovered from
> uncleaned hard drives.?
>
>
--
Maus@ireland.com
Will Rant For Food
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376762 is a reply to message #376736] |
Tue, 27 November 2018 04:19 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2018-11-26, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26 Nov 2018 22:09:33 GMT, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-11-26, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 26 Nov 2018 17:50:10 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2018-11-26, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Funny how much better the "doesn't work as well" Windows 10 works than
>>> did Windows 95.
>>
>>
>> One of the worst nights of my life was going to a presentation using Win95
>> amd watching the poor boobie's machine crash and crash again.
See correction.
>
> That's kind of sad. One would have expected him to get his
> presentation debugged before presenting. OTOH, one thing that will
> kill that generation of Windows is bad RAM, and a lot of machines
> shipped with bad RAM and no way to detect it. I still have a dual
> Xeon machine from that era with ECC RAM. It's always been rock solid
> and one of these days I'm going to build myself another. Windows
> seems unusually sensitive in that regard. I remember a Novell server
> that had bad RAM but ran rock-stable, it just changed the values of
> the data that flowed through it.
Someone wrote many years ago that there was an overflow problem in Win95,
reliably, every certain time, it would crash. (I know nothing, I from Barcelona)
>
>>>> > Why not just keep on with the old version of Windows? It works fine
>>>> > until you try to install something that insists on a newer version and
>>>> > most of the dreaded "security holes" can be closed with that same
>>>> > external non-Windows firewall.
>>>>
>>>> My machines run native Linux. For the times when I need Windows,
>>>> I run a copy of XP under VirtualBox. In the unlikely event that
>>>> I should ever have to run a program that needs the latest version
>>>> of Windows, I'd look into Wine - or find another way of doing things.
>>>> There's no way that W10 is ever going to infest any of my machines.
>
> If anybody in a third-world country cares to recover data from
> uncleaned hard drives. I suspect that there's a lot less of that sort
> of thing going on than the Be Very Afraid contingent would have us
> believe.
My sone used collect dumped computers, never found anything worthwhile
on them, One had a start of a Novel, very Lurid.
--
Maus@ireland.com
Will Rant For Food
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376764 is a reply to message #376704] |
Tue, 27 November 2018 06:12 |
Andrew Swallow
Messages: 1705
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 26/11/2018 17:11, JimP wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 15:11:36 -0000, "Gareth's Jim's Advent Computer"
> <no.email@thankyou.invalid> wrote:
>> Whilst my Windows 7 PC is at the menders, and I am using the backstop on an
>> XP machine, I'm getting
>> not supported messages from FireFox.
>>
>> Microsoft exhibits sharp practice by bringing out a version of Windows which
>> is not of merchantable quality because
>> of all the bugs in it and then instead of resolving the bugs, drops it like
>> a hot potato to bring out another bug ridden release.
>>
>> There must be a legion of usable old machines out there which are candidates
>> for linux when Microsoft drop the installed version of Windows, so if linux
>> is the final solution, why not just install it in the first place and be
>> done with the shoddy workmanship of Microsoft?
>
> One place I worked I found that even machines that were idle, not
> being used, and other machines that had been redone so they had linux
> on them, were still required by contract to pay MS a fee of
> approximately $100 per year per unit.
>
> I had to go through my desktops and find which ones were no longer in
> use and turn them in for recycle so we could take them off the list of
> equipment. Thereby getting rid of that fee.
>
> Only thing I could get out of it when I asked why, was that it was in
> the contract with MS. And one person told me I didn't understand.
> Well, I think they were getting ripped off, but that person didn't
> want to hear that.
>
This is the trick that allowed Microsoft to become the biggest software
firm in the world. Computer hardware manufactures that sold **any**
computers using Windows had to pay licence fees for **all** computers
they sold.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376767 is a reply to message #376764] |
Tue, 27 November 2018 06:38 |
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Originally posted by: Robert Billing
> This is the trick that allowed Microsoft to become the biggest software
> firm in the world. Computer hardware manufactures that sold **any**
> computers using Windows had to pay licence fees for **all** computers
> they sold.
It makes you wonder sometimes...
Rev 13:16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark,
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376769 is a reply to message #376764] |
Tue, 27 November 2018 07:06 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 11:12:12 +0000
Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
> This is the trick that allowed Microsoft to become the biggest software
> firm in the world. Computer hardware manufactures that sold **any**
> computers using Windows had to pay licence fees for **all** computers
> they sold.
Only if they wanted to qualify for the deep discount, otherwise
they were welcome to pay full price for each licence.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376772 is a reply to message #376762] |
Tue, 27 November 2018 08:38 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 27 Nov 2018 09:19:28 GMT, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-11-26, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 26 Nov 2018 22:09:33 GMT, maus <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-11-26, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 26 Nov 2018 17:50:10 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >On 2018-11-26, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Funny how much better the "doesn't work as well" Windows 10 works than
>>>> did Windows 95.
>>>
>>>
>>> One of the worst nights of my life was going to a presentation using Win95
>>> amd watching the poor boobie's machine crash and crash again.
>
> See correction.
>>
>> That's kind of sad. One would have expected him to get his
>> presentation debugged before presenting. OTOH, one thing that will
>> kill that generation of Windows is bad RAM, and a lot of machines
>> shipped with bad RAM and no way to detect it. I still have a dual
>> Xeon machine from that era with ECC RAM. It's always been rock solid
>> and one of these days I'm going to build myself another. Windows
>> seems unusually sensitive in that regard. I remember a Novell server
>> that had bad RAM but ran rock-stable, it just changed the values of
>> the data that flowed through it.
>
> Someone wrote many years ago that there was an overflow problem in Win95,
> reliably, every certain time, it would crash. (I know nothing, I from Barcelona)
There was one weird situation that would develop occasionally--I never
tracked down the cause. There were times during some process, I
forget what now, in which Windows 95 would appear to freeze. If you
kept moving the mouse though it would continue the process, so you had
to row through it with the mouse. Didn't have to click anything, just
move it back and forth.
>>>> >> Why not just keep on with the old version of Windows? It works fine
>>>> >> until you try to install something that insists on a newer version and
>>>> >> most of the dreaded "security holes" can be closed with that same
>>>> >> external non-Windows firewall.
>>>> >
>>>> >My machines run native Linux. For the times when I need Windows,
>>>> >I run a copy of XP under VirtualBox. In the unlikely event that
>>>> >I should ever have to run a program that needs the latest version
>>>> >of Windows, I'd look into Wine - or find another way of doing things.
>>>> >There's no way that W10 is ever going to infest any of my machines.
>>
>> If anybody in a third-world country cares to recover data from
>> uncleaned hard drives. I suspect that there's a lot less of that sort
>> of thing going on than the Be Very Afraid contingent would have us
>> believe.
>
> My sone used collect dumped computers, never found anything worthwhile
> on them, One had a start of a Novel, very Lurid.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376774 is a reply to message #376764] |
Tue, 27 November 2018 08:41 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 11:12:12 +0000, Andrew Swallow
<am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 26/11/2018 17:11, JimP wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 15:11:36 -0000, "Gareth's Jim's Advent Computer"
>> <no.email@thankyou.invalid> wrote:
>>> Whilst my Windows 7 PC is at the menders, and I am using the backstop on an
>>> XP machine, I'm getting
>>> not supported messages from FireFox.
>>>
>>> Microsoft exhibits sharp practice by bringing out a version of Windows which
>>> is not of merchantable quality because
>>> of all the bugs in it and then instead of resolving the bugs, drops it like
>>> a hot potato to bring out another bug ridden release.
>>>
>>> There must be a legion of usable old machines out there which are candidates
>>> for linux when Microsoft drop the installed version of Windows, so if linux
>>> is the final solution, why not just install it in the first place and be
>>> done with the shoddy workmanship of Microsoft?
>>
>> One place I worked I found that even machines that were idle, not
>> being used, and other machines that had been redone so they had linux
>> on them, were still required by contract to pay MS a fee of
>> approximately $100 per year per unit.
>>
>> I had to go through my desktops and find which ones were no longer in
>> use and turn them in for recycle so we could take them off the list of
>> equipment. Thereby getting rid of that fee.
>>
>> Only thing I could get out of it when I asked why, was that it was in
>> the contract with MS. And one person told me I didn't understand.
>> Well, I think they were getting ripped off, but that person didn't
>> want to hear that.
>>
>
> This is the trick that allowed Microsoft to become the biggest software
> firm in the world. Computer hardware manufactures that sold **any**
> computers using Windows had to pay licence fees for **all** computers
> they sold.
That was likely a requirement in order to get the deepest discount.
There's no such requirement just to purchase OEM Windows.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376788 is a reply to message #376778] |
Tue, 27 November 2018 15:40 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 15:06:12 -0000, "Gareth's Jim's Advent Computer"
<no.email@thankyou.invalid> wrote:
> "Huge" <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in message
> news:g64ti7Fgt56U2@mid.individual.net...
>> It surely does. It makes me wonder about the relevance of a 400 y/o
>> translation of a book heavily revised 1700 years ago concerning events
>> that occurred 200 years before it was written in the first place.
>>
>
> It's all make-believe.
>
> One hears of children with imaginary friends and it is surprising to
> encounter
> grown-ups who live in the world of make believe.
>
> Religion is another word for ignorance and as science progresses, ignorance
> and its alter ego, religion, retreats.
Religion does not retreat, it metamorphoses. Right now the religion
of Scientism is taking over from Christianity, Islam, etc. The high
priests of Scientism are people who are proclaimed as Scientists and
the rank and file will believe any line of bullshit that comes out of
their mouths and answer any questioning of that bullshit with "but you
aren't a Scientist so why should anybody answer your question?"
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376789 is a reply to message #376786] |
Tue, 27 November 2018 15:42 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 27 Nov 2018 18:48:59 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
> On 2018-11-27, Gareth's Jim's Advent Computer <no.email@thankyou.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Religion is another word for ignorance and as science progresses,
>> ignorance and its alter ego, religion, retreats.
>
> I'm not so sure about that. Ignorance seems to be making some
> progress of its own these days. (At least I think it is -
> let me google that to make sure...)
I would really love to see one of these johnny-come-lately atheists go
head to head with an "ignoramus" like Aquinas or Augustin.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376796 is a reply to message #376788] |
Tue, 27 November 2018 17:30 |
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Originally posted by: Gareth's Jim's Advent Computer
"J. Clarke" <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cparvdtbrpenginsta0dq7dcj77rsud2dk@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 15:06:12 -0000, "Gareth's Jim's Advent Computer"
> <no.email@thankyou.invalid> wrote:
>
>> "Huge" <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:g64ti7Fgt56U2@mid.individual.net...
>>> It surely does. It makes me wonder about the relevance of a 400 y/o
>>> translation of a book heavily revised 1700 years ago concerning events
>>> that occurred 200 years before it was written in the first place.
>>>
>>
>> It's all make-believe.
>>
>> One hears of children with imaginary friends and it is surprising to
>> encounter
>> grown-ups who live in the world of make believe.
>>
>> Religion is another word for ignorance and as science progresses,
>> ignorance
>> and its alter ego, religion, retreats.
>
> Religion does not retreat, it metamorphoses. Right now the religion
> of Scientism is taking over from Christianity, Islam, etc. The high
> priests of Scientism are people who are proclaimed as Scientists and
> the rank and file will believe any line of bullshit that comes out of
> their mouths and answer any questioning of that bullshit with "but you
> aren't a Scientist so why should anybody answer your question?"
>
Sceince means knowledge, the oppositeof ignorance.
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376798 is a reply to message #376789] |
Tue, 27 November 2018 18:28 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> On 27 Nov 2018 18:48:59 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-11-27, Gareth's Jim's Advent Computer <no.email@thankyou.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Religion is another word for ignorance and as science progresses,
>>> ignorance and its alter ego, religion, retreats.
>>
>> I'm not so sure about that. Ignorance seems to be making some
>> progress of its own these days. (At least I think it is -
>> let me google that to make sure...)
>
> I would really love to see one of these johnny-come-lately atheists go
> head to head with an "ignoramus" like Aquinas or Augustin.
I've read a little of that stuff.
Same double talk that is common today in fancy clothes.
For example, they use the term "substitutionary atonement".
But it's still nonsense.
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376799 is a reply to message #376788] |
Tue, 27 November 2018 18:32 |
Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 15:06:12 -0000, "Gareth's Jim's Advent Computer"
> <no.email@thankyou.invalid> wrote:
>
>> "Huge" <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:g64ti7Fgt56U2@mid.individual.net...
>>> It surely does. It makes me wonder about the relevance of a 400 y/o
>>> translation of a book heavily revised 1700 years ago concerning events
>>> that occurred 200 years before it was written in the first place.
>>>
>>
>> It's all make-believe.
>>
>> One hears of children with imaginary friends and it is surprising to
>> encounter
>> grown-ups who live in the world of make believe.
>>
>> Religion is another word for ignorance and as science progresses, ignorance
>> and its alter ego, religion, retreats.
>
> Religion does not retreat, it metamorphoses. Right now the religion
> of Scientism is taking over from Christianity, Islam, etc. The high
> priests of Scientism are people who are proclaimed as Scientists and
> the rank and file will believe any line of bullshit that comes out of
> their mouths and answer any questioning of that bullshit with "but you
> aren't a Scientist so why should anybody answer your question?"
You are making less sense than usual.
Since when does religion have observation, verification, correction,
provisional theories?
--
Dan Espen
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376803 is a reply to message #376796] |
Tue, 27 November 2018 19:34 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 22:30:16 -0000, "Gareth's Jim's Advent Computer"
<no.email@thankyou.invalid> wrote:
>
> "J. Clarke" <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:cparvdtbrpenginsta0dq7dcj77rsud2dk@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 15:06:12 -0000, "Gareth's Jim's Advent Computer"
>> <no.email@thankyou.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> "Huge" <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:g64ti7Fgt56U2@mid.individual.net...
>>>> It surely does. It makes me wonder about the relevance of a 400 y/o
>>>> translation of a book heavily revised 1700 years ago concerning events
>>>> that occurred 200 years before it was written in the first place.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's all make-believe.
>>>
>>> One hears of children with imaginary friends and it is surprising to
>>> encounter
>>> grown-ups who live in the world of make believe.
>>>
>>> Religion is another word for ignorance and as science progresses,
>>> ignorance
>>> and its alter ego, religion, retreats.
>>
>> Religion does not retreat, it metamorphoses. Right now the religion
>> of Scientism is taking over from Christianity, Islam, etc. The high
>> priests of Scientism are people who are proclaimed as Scientists and
>> the rank and file will believe any line of bullshit that comes out of
>> their mouths and answer any questioning of that bullshit with "but you
>> aren't a Scientist so why should anybody answer your question?"
>>
>
> Sceince means knowledge, the oppositeof ignorance.
So how does that kool-aid taste?
The priesthood always convinces the ignorant that the priesthood has a
monopoly on Truth. How do _you_ know that the Scientists aren't lying
to you?
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| Re: Is LINUX the inheritor of the Earth? [message #376804 is a reply to message #376799] |
Tue, 27 November 2018 19:36 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 18:32:36 -0500, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 15:06:12 -0000, "Gareth's Jim's Advent Computer"
>> <no.email@thankyou.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> "Huge" <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:g64ti7Fgt56U2@mid.individual.net...
>>>> It surely does. It makes me wonder about the relevance of a 400 y/o
>>>> translation of a book heavily revised 1700 years ago concerning events
>>>> that occurred 200 years before it was written in the first place.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's all make-believe.
>>>
>>> One hears of children with imaginary friends and it is surprising to
>>> encounter
>>> grown-ups who live in the world of make believe.
>>>
>>> Religion is another word for ignorance and as science progresses, ignorance
>>> and its alter ego, religion, retreats.
>>
>> Religion does not retreat, it metamorphoses. Right now the religion
>> of Scientism is taking over from Christianity, Islam, etc. The high
>> priests of Scientism are people who are proclaimed as Scientists and
>> the rank and file will believe any line of bullshit that comes out of
>> their mouths and answer any questioning of that bullshit with "but you
>> aren't a Scientist so why should anybody answer your question?"
>
> You are making less sense than usual.
>
> Since when does religion have observation, verification, correction,
> provisional theories?
So how do you know that the Scientist who is holding forth has
actually applied any of that?
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