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Retro computing and gaming, sci-fi books, tv and movies and other geeky stuff.Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
https://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=411149&th=113330#msg_411149
>
> On 22/09/2021 06.11, SevenOverSix wrote:
>>
>> You could LOOK, but not TOUCH the mini-mainframes. Only
>> the Holy Elite were allowed in the Computer Room. You
>> could offer your sacrifice of punch-cards in the room
>> next door of course ............
>
> Oh, we had our lab time on the terminals.
>
> However, the machine got so busy with all the students compiling and
> testing their Pascal assignments (specially in the last weeks), that the
> editor would take seconds to respond to a keypress. So we counted: five
> lines down, then 12 letters right, then three deletes, then replace
> "tye" with "the", then wait :-D
>
> It was then that I decided I needed my own computer and asked my father
> to get me one. An Amstrad PC 1512, the student association had an
> agreement with a vendor. A bit weird vendor... it was not a computer
> shop, but a warehouse of some industrial thing... There no home PC
> computer vendors by that time, they were starting.
That was Spain at that time?
Similar in Germany. Dedicated computer shop chains only showed up later
in the 1980s and had their boom in the 1990s. Then most died.
Then you had general department stores which added home computers by the
early 1980s. Then you had hypermarkets (like Walmart or Carrefour today)
where you (in my case at least) only found products by Commodore. There I
got my C64 (1984) and Amiga 500 (1989) from.
[...]
>> Need to find a compatible tape cassette unit now. Junk
>> store ? COULD cheat and record to a modern PC audio
>> capture, but it's just not the same somehow :-)
>
> Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try, make sure to
> not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the experiment, to find out.
There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
<https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before. They
sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found the show on
Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that position) and ran the
resulting WAV in an emulator fir that particular machine on my PC. It my
amazement it worked.
X'Post + F'up alt.folklore.computers
[1] So unknown the IMDB page has only little information and a Wikipedia
page not even exists.
--
Andreas]]>Andreas Kohlbach2021-09-22T19:57:41-00:00Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
https://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=411151&th=113330#msg_411151
Originally posted by: Carlos E. R.
On 22/09/2021 21.57, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:13:12 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>> On 22/09/2021 06.11, SevenOverSix wrote:
>>>
>>> You could LOOK, but not TOUCH the mini-mainframes. Only
>>> the Holy Elite were allowed in the Computer Room. You
>>> could offer your sacrifice of punch-cards in the room
>>> next door of course ............
>>
>> Oh, we had our lab time on the terminals.
>>
>> However, the machine got so busy with all the students compiling and
>> testing their Pascal assignments (specially in the last weeks), that the
>> editor would take seconds to respond to a keypress. So we counted: five
>> lines down, then 12 letters right, then three deletes, then replace
>> "tye" with "the", then wait :-D
>>
>> It was then that I decided I needed my own computer and asked my father
>> to get me one. An Amstrad PC 1512, the student association had an
>> agreement with a vendor. A bit weird vendor... it was not a computer
>> shop, but a warehouse of some industrial thing... There no home PC
>> computer vendors by that time, they were starting.
>
> That was Spain at that time?
More or less, dates are confusing. Well, the dates when the Amstrad
started selling is known, must be on wikipedia.
>
> Similar in Germany. Dedicated computer shop chains only showed up later
> in the 1980s and had their boom in the 1990s. Then most died.
>
> Then you had general department stores which added home computers by the
> early 1980s.
Yes indeed.
And electronic component shops that besides oscilloscopes could sell you
a computer. Ah, HAM stuff shops, too.
> Then you had hypermarkets (like Walmart or Carrefour today)
> where you (in my case at least) only found products by Commodore. There I
> got my C64 (1984) and Amiga 500 (1989) from.
:-D
>
> [...]
>
>>> Need to find a compatible tape cassette unit now. Junk
>>> store ? COULD cheat and record to a modern PC audio
>>> capture, but it's just not the same somehow :-)
>>
>> Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try, make sure to
>> not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the experiment, to find out.
>
> There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
> <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before. They
> sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found the show on
> Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that position) and ran the
> resulting WAV in an emulator fir that particular machine on my PC. It my
> amazement it worked.
Wow.
> X'Post + F'up alt.folklore.computers
I don't have that one subscribed here, so I will keep comp.os.linux.misc.
>
> [1] So unknown the IMDB page has only little information and a Wikipedia
> page not even exists.
>
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.]]>2021-09-22T22:59:46-00:00Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
https://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=411162&th=113330#msg_411162
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 22/09/2021 21.57, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
[]
>>
>> There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
>> <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before.
>> They sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found
I recall that happening; but wasn't it a BBC (Acorn) thing?
My googlfu is weak.
>> the show on Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that
>> position) and ran the resulting WAV in an emulator fir that
>> particular machine on my PC. It my amazement it worked.
>
>
> Wow.
>
>> X'Post + F'up alt.folklore.computers
>
> I don't have that one subscribed here, so I will keep
> comp.os.linux.misc.
>
Do it! Lot's of tales of yesteryear.
>>
>> [1] So unknown the IMDB page has only little information and a
>> Wikipedia page not even exists.
>>
> --
> Cheers,
> Carlos E.R.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.]]>Harry Vaderchi2021-09-23T09:14:15-00:00Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
https://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=411163&th=113330#msg_411163
Originally posted by: Carlos E. R.
On 23/09/2021 11.14, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 00:59:46 +0200
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 22/09/2021 21.57, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> []
>
>>>
>>> There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
>>> <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before.
>>> They sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found
>
> I recall that happening; but wasn't it a BBC (Acorn) thing?
>
> My googlfu is weak.
>
>>> the show on Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that
>>> position) and ran the resulting WAV in an emulator fir that
>>> particular machine on my PC. It my amazement it worked.
>>
>>
>> Wow.
>>
>>> X'Post + F'up alt.folklore.computers
>>
>> I don't have that one subscribed here, so I will keep
>> comp.os.linux.misc.
>>
> Do it! Lot's of tales of yesteryear.
I have it at home, but not in my laptop, which is ancient and already
too loaded. I may try.
As a general rule, I don't like moving a thread from one group to
another, as people can be left out. Adding another group is ok.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.]]>2021-09-23T10:13:29-00:00Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
https://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=411167&th=113330#msg_411167
robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 22/09/2021 21.57, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:13:12 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>
>>> On 22/09/2021 06.11, SevenOverSix wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You could LOOK, but not TOUCH the mini-mainframes. Only
>>>> the Holy Elite were allowed in the Computer Room. You
>>>> could offer your sacrifice of punch-cards in the room
>>>> next door of course ............
>>>
>>> Oh, we had our lab time on the terminals.
>>>
>>> However, the machine got so busy with all the students compiling and
>>> testing their Pascal assignments (specially in the last weeks), that the
>>> editor would take seconds to respond to a keypress. So we counted: five
>>> lines down, then 12 letters right, then three deletes, then replace
>>> "tye" with "the", then wait :-D
>>>
>>> It was then that I decided I needed my own computer and asked my father
>>> to get me one. An Amstrad PC 1512, the student association had an
>>> agreement with a vendor. A bit weird vendor... it was not a computer
>>> shop, but a warehouse of some industrial thing... There no home PC
>>> computer vendors by that time, they were starting.
>>
>> That was Spain at that time?
>
> More or less, dates are confusing. Well, the dates when the Amstrad
> started selling is known, must be on wikipedia.
>
>>
>> Similar in Germany. Dedicated computer shop chains only showed up later
>> in the 1980s and had their boom in the 1990s. Then most died.
>>
>> Then you had general department stores which added home computers by the
>> early 1980s.
>
> Yes indeed.
>
> And electronic component shops that besides oscilloscopes could sell you
> a computer. Ah, HAM stuff shops, too.
>
>> Then you had hypermarkets (like Walmart or Carrefour today)
>> where you (in my case at least) only found products by Commodore. There I
>> got my C64 (1984) and Amiga 500 (1989) from.
>
> :-D
>
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>> Need to find a compatible tape cassette unit now. Junk
>>>> store ? COULD cheat and record to a modern PC audio
>>>> capture, but it's just not the same somehow :-)
>>>
>>> Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try, make sure to
>>> not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the experiment, to find out.
>>
>> There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
>> <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before. They
>> sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found the show on
>> Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that position) and ran the
>> resulting WAV in an emulator fir that particular machine on my PC. It my
>> amazement it worked.
>
>
> Wow.
Systems that saved programs on cassette used an audio format. Due to the
sloppiness of the media, I think the recording format had to be pretty
robust.
>
>> X'Post + F'up alt.folklore.computers
>
> I don't have that one subscribed here, so I will keep comp.os.linux.misc.
>
>>
>> [1] So unknown the IMDB page has only little information and a Wikipedia
>> page not even exists.
>>
>
>
--
Pete]]>Peter Flass2021-09-23T14:32:04-00:00Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
https://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=411170&th=113330#msg_411170
Originally posted by: Rich
In comp.os.linux.misc Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 22/09/2021 21.57, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:13:12 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try, make
>>>> sure to not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the
>>>> experiment, to find out.
>>>
>>> There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
>>> <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before.
>>> They sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found
>>> the show on Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that
>>> position) and ran the resulting WAV in an emulator fir that
>>> particular machine on my PC. It my amazement it worked.
>>
>>
>> Wow.
>
> Systems that saved programs on cassette used an audio format. Due to
> the sloppiness of the media, I think the recording format had to be
> pretty robust.
At least in the case of the Atari 400/800 cassette format it was a very
simple format:
132 byte records, two start bytes for 'speed detection', a control
byte, 128 data bytes, and a single checksum byte (and the checksum is
just a simple endaround carry sum of the 131 other bytes in the record).
The physical byte encoding on the tape was frequency shift keying, with
5327 Hz for a mark and 3995 Hz for a space.
So it at least it had a simple checksum, but the packet format was
hardly "robust". Workable, but memory of those days was that the
cassette was quite flakey as a data storage format, sometimes it
worked, sometimes it did not. And when it did not rereading things all
over again sometimes magically had them work.]]>2021-09-23T15:45:14-00:00Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
https://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=411175&th=113330#msg_411175
rich@example.invalid> wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.misc Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 22/09/2021 21.57, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:13:12 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try,
>>>> > make sure to not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the
>>>> > experiment, to find out.
>>>>
>>>> There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
>>>> <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before.
>>>> They sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found
>>>> the show on Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that
>>>> position) and ran the resulting WAV in an emulator fir that
>>>> particular machine on my PC. It my amazement it worked.
>>>
>>> Wow.
>>
>> Systems that saved programs on cassette used an audio format. Due to
>> the sloppiness of the media, I think the recording format had to be
>> pretty robust.
>
> At least in the case of the Atari 400/800 cassette format it was a very
> simple format:
>
> Format details are here: https://www.atariarchives.org/dere/chaptC.php
>
> 132 byte records, two start bytes for 'speed detection', a control
> byte, 128 data bytes, and a single checksum byte (and the checksum is
> just a simple endaround carry sum of the 131 other bytes in the record).
>
> The physical byte encoding on the tape was frequency shift keying, with
> 5327 Hz for a mark and 3995 Hz for a space.
>
> So it at least it had a simple checksum, but the packet format was
> hardly "robust". Workable, but memory of those days was that the
> cassette was quite flakey as a data storage format, sometimes it
> worked, sometimes it did not. And when it did not rereading things all
> over again sometimes magically had them work.
Ah yes, I remember the good old days with my IMSAI. I didn't have
cassette decks, but I had a couple of reel-to-reel decks, so I broke
into their motor circuits and built a control box that would use the
cassette motor control circuits to activate relays to switch 110-volt
motor power on and off.
I didn't have a real cassette interface in the beginning, but I did
have a Bell 202 modem (1200 bps async) that I picked up somewhere.
I recorded its output to tape and played it back in - it worked well
enough, although when I finally scraped up the bucks for a CUTS board
it was more reliable (but not much faster).
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful -
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin]]>Charlie Gibbs2021-09-23T18:31:33-00:00Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
https://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=411179&th=113330#msg_411179
cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2021-09-23, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>> In comp.os.linux.misc Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 22/09/2021 21.57, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:13:12 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try,
>>>> >> make sure to not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the
>>>> >> experiment, to find out.
>>>> >
>>>> > There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
>>>> > <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before.
>>>> > They sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found
>>>> > the show on Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that
>>>> > position) and ran the resulting WAV in an emulator fir that
>>>> > particular machine on my PC. It my amazement it worked.
>>>>
>>>> Wow.
>>>
>>> Systems that saved programs on cassette used an audio format. Due to
>>> the sloppiness of the media, I think the recording format had to be
>>> pretty robust.
>>
>> At least in the case of the Atari 400/800 cassette format it was a very
>> simple format:
>>
>> Format details are here: https://www.atariarchives.org/dere/chaptC.php
>>
>> 132 byte records, two start bytes for 'speed detection', a control
>> byte, 128 data bytes, and a single checksum byte (and the checksum is
>> just a simple endaround carry sum of the 131 other bytes in the record).
>>
>> The physical byte encoding on the tape was frequency shift keying, with
>> 5327 Hz for a mark and 3995 Hz for a space.
>>
>> So it at least it had a simple checksum, but the packet format was
>> hardly "robust". Workable, but memory of those days was that the
>> cassette was quite flakey as a data storage format, sometimes it
>> worked, sometimes it did not. And when it did not rereading things all
>> over again sometimes magically had them work.
>
> Ah yes, I remember the good old days with my IMSAI. I didn't have
> cassette decks, but I had a couple of reel-to-reel decks, so I broke
> into their motor circuits and built a control box that would use the
> cassette motor control circuits to activate relays to switch 110-volt
> motor power on and off.
I was astonished when I got my first home computer with a cassette drive
that it didn’t do this!
>
> I didn't have a real cassette interface in the beginning, but I did
> have a Bell 202 modem (1200 bps async) that I picked up somewhere.
> I recorded its output to tape and played it back in - it worked well
> enough, although when I finally scraped up the bucks for a CUTS board
> it was more reliable (but not much faster).
>
--
Pete]]>Peter Flass2021-09-23T19:55:07-00:00Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
https://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=411184&th=113330#msg_411184
Originally posted by: Carlos E. R.
On 23/09/2021 21.55, Peter Flass wrote:
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2021-09-23, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> In comp.os.linux.misc Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 22/09/2021 21.57, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:13:12 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try,
>>>> >>> make sure to not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the
>>>> >>> experiment, to find out.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer Buffs"
>>>> >> <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard of before.
>>>> >> They sent program data via audio the audience record. When I found
>>>> >> the show on Youtube I tested that (extracted the audio at that
>>>> >> position) and ran the resulting WAV in an emulator fir that
>>>> >> particular machine on my PC. It my amazement it worked.
>>>> >
>>>> > Wow.
>>>>
>>>> Systems that saved programs on cassette used an audio format. Due to
>>>> the sloppiness of the media, I think the recording format had to be
>>>> pretty robust.
>>>
>>> At least in the case of the Atari 400/800 cassette format it was a very
>>> simple format:
>>>
>>> Format details are here: https://www.atariarchives.org/dere/chaptC.php
>>>
>>> 132 byte records, two start bytes for 'speed detection', a control
>>> byte, 128 data bytes, and a single checksum byte (and the checksum is
>>> just a simple endaround carry sum of the 131 other bytes in the record).
>>>
>>> The physical byte encoding on the tape was frequency shift keying, with
>>> 5327 Hz for a mark and 3995 Hz for a space.
>>>
>>> So it at least it had a simple checksum, but the packet format was
>>> hardly "robust". Workable, but memory of those days was that the
>>> cassette was quite flakey as a data storage format, sometimes it
>>> worked, sometimes it did not. And when it did not rereading things all
>>> over again sometimes magically had them work.
>>
>> Ah yes, I remember the good old days with my IMSAI. I didn't have
>> cassette decks, but I had a couple of reel-to-reel decks, so I broke
>> into their motor circuits and built a control box that would use the
>> cassette motor control circuits to activate relays to switch 110-volt
>> motor power on and off.
>
> I was astonished when I got my first home computer with a cassette drive
> that it didn’t do this!
I have a foggy memory that it used the switch on/off wires of the
microphone, which in some/all tape machines stopped the motor.
That would be the Sinclair Spectrum if any, but can't vouch for it.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.]]>2021-09-23T22:21:01-00:00Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
https://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=411201&th=113330#msg_411201
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 23/09/2021 21.55, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2021-09-23, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In comp.os.linux.misc Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On 22/09/2021 21.57, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:13:12 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try,
>>>> >>>> make sure to not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the
>>>> >>>> experiment, to find out.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer
>>>> >>> Buffs" <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard
>>>> >>> of before. They sent program data via audio the audience
>>>> >>> record. When I found the show on Youtube I tested that
>>>> >>> (extracted the audio at that position) and ran the resulting
>>>> >>> WAV in an emulator fir that particular machine on my PC. It
>>>> >>> my amazement it worked.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Wow.
>>>> >
>>>> > Systems that saved programs on cassette used an audio format.
>>>> > Due to the sloppiness of the media, I think the recording format
>>>> > had to be pretty robust.
>>>>
>>>> At least in the case of the Atari 400/800 cassette format it was
>>>> a very simple format:
>>>>
>>>> Format details are here:
>>>> https://www.atariarchives.org/dere/chaptC.php
>>>>
>>>> 132 byte records, two start bytes for 'speed detection', a
>>>> control byte, 128 data bytes, and a single checksum byte (and the
>>>> checksum is just a simple endaround carry sum of the 131 other
>>>> bytes in the record).
>>>>
>>>> The physical byte encoding on the tape was frequency shift
>>>> keying, with 5327 Hz for a mark and 3995 Hz for a space.
>>>>
>>>> So it at least it had a simple checksum, but the packet format
>>>> was hardly "robust". Workable, but memory of those days was that
>>>> the cassette was quite flakey as a data storage format, sometimes
>>>> it worked, sometimes it did not. And when it did not rereading
>>>> things all over again sometimes magically had them work.
>>>
>>> Ah yes, I remember the good old days with my IMSAI. I didn't have
>>> cassette decks, but I had a couple of reel-to-reel decks, so I
>>> broke into their motor circuits and built a control box that would
>>> use the cassette motor control circuits to activate relays to
>>> switch 110-volt motor power on and off.
>>
>> I was astonished when I got my first home computer with a cassette
>> drive that it didn’t do this!
>
> I have a foggy memory that it used the switch on/off wires of the
> microphone, which in some/all tape machines stopped the motor.
>
> That would be the Sinclair Spectrum if any, but can't vouch for it.
Drifting; the Amstrad early version (z80 based) CPC464 had a builtin cassette recorder.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.]]>Harry Vaderchi2021-09-24T11:42:04-00:00Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
https://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=411202&th=113330#msg_411202
Originally posted by: Branimir Maksimovic
I had CPC6128 2x64kb and FLOPPY! z80 CPU alright and CP/M OS.
Worked in bakershop in England to save money ti buy it.
Learned to program on z80.
--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\
On 2021-09-24, Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 00:21:01 +0200
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 23/09/2021 21.55, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2021-09-23, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > In comp.os.linux.misc Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On 22/09/2021 21.57, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:13:12 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> Might not work (a capture). Just a guess. If you do try,
>>>> >>>>> make sure to not use mp3. Now that I think, I would try the
>>>> >>>>> experiment, to find out.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> There was a short lived [1] UK computer show "4 Computer
>>>> >>>> Buffs" <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1178499/> I never heard
>>>> >>>> of before. They sent program data via audio the audience
>>>> >>>> record. When I found the show on Youtube I tested that
>>>> >>>> (extracted the audio at that position) and ran the resulting
>>>> >>>> WAV in an emulator fir that particular machine on my PC. It
>>>> >>>> my amazement it worked.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Wow.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Systems that saved programs on cassette used an audio format.
>>>> >> Due to the sloppiness of the media, I think the recording format
>>>> >> had to be pretty robust.
>>>> >
>>>> > At least in the case of the Atari 400/800 cassette format it was
>>>> > a very simple format:
>>>> >
>>>> > Format details are here:
>>>> > https://www.atariarchives.org/dere/chaptC.php
>>>> >
>>>> > 132 byte records, two start bytes for 'speed detection', a
>>>> > control byte, 128 data bytes, and a single checksum byte (and the
>>>> > checksum is just a simple endaround carry sum of the 131 other
>>>> > bytes in the record).
>>>> >
>>>> > The physical byte encoding on the tape was frequency shift
>>>> > keying, with 5327 Hz for a mark and 3995 Hz for a space.
>>>> >
>>>> > So it at least it had a simple checksum, but the packet format
>>>> > was hardly "robust". Workable, but memory of those days was that
>>>> > the cassette was quite flakey as a data storage format, sometimes
>>>> > it worked, sometimes it did not. And when it did not rereading
>>>> > things all over again sometimes magically had them work.
>>>>
>>>> Ah yes, I remember the good old days with my IMSAI. I didn't have
>>>> cassette decks, but I had a couple of reel-to-reel decks, so I
>>>> broke into their motor circuits and built a control box that would
>>>> use the cassette motor control circuits to activate relays to
>>>> switch 110-volt motor power on and off.
>>>
>>> I was astonished when I got my first home computer with a cassette
>>> drive that it didn’t do this!
>>
>> I have a foggy memory that it used the switch on/off wires of the
>> microphone, which in some/all tape machines stopped the motor.
>>
>> That would be the Sinclair Spectrum if any, but can't vouch for it.
>
> Drifting; the Amstrad early version (z80 based) CPC464 had a builtin cassette recorder.
>
> I had CPC6128 2x64kb and FLOPPY! z80 CPU alright and CP/M OS.
> Worked in bakershop in England to save money ti buy it.
> Learned to program on z80.
>
> --
> 7-77-777
> \|/
> ---
> /|\
>
Please adopt usenet convention and post your reply text at the bottom, there's a good chap. And some judicious snipping would help too. (Yup I didn't do it last time, mea culpa).
> On 2021-09-24, Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 00:21:01 +0200
[]
>>
>> Drifting; the Amstrad early version (z80 based) CPC464 had a
>> builtin cassette recorder.
>>
>
>
> --
> Evil Sinner!
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.]]>Harry Vaderchi2021-09-24T12:40:10-00:00Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
https://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=411206&th=113330#msg_411206
Originally posted by: Branimir Maksimovic
Ok, I'll do that when you learn how to format text properly.
Top posting is what emphaises is on, and, if lot of text, they
will not even read what is written.
YES, CPC464 was very popular, and breaking SPEEDLOCK protections
as excercize :P
--
7-77-777
\|/
/|\
On 2021-09-24, Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 11:47:53 GMT Branimir Maksimovic
> <branimir.maksimovic@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I had CPC6128 2x64kb and FLOPPY! z80 CPU alright and CP/M OS. Worked in
>> bakershop in England to save money ti buy it. Learned to program on z80.
>>
>> -- 7-77-777 \|/ --- /|\
>>
> Please adopt usenet convention and post your reply text at the bottom,
> there's a good chap. And some judicious snipping would help too. (Yup I
> didn't do it last time, mea culpa).
>
>
>
>> On 2021-09-24, Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 00:21:01 +0200
> []
>>>
>>> Drifting; the Amstrad early version (z80 based) CPC464 had a builtin
>>> cassette recorder.
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- Evil Sinner!
>
>
--
Evil Sinner!]]>2021-09-24T13:05:37-00:00Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
https://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=411207&th=113330#msg_411207
Originally posted by: Andrea Croci
Same here. I so much hate having to scroll down to read what I want to
read, that could be just there for me to see.
On 24.09.21 15:05, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
> Ok, I'll do that when you learn how to format text properly.
> Top posting is what emphaises is on, and, if lot of text, they
> will not even read what is written.
> YES, CPC464 was very popular, and breaking SPEEDLOCK protections
> as excercize :P
> --
> 7-77-777
> \|/
> /|\
>
> On 2021-09-24, Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 11:47:53 GMT Branimir Maksimovic
>> <branimir.maksimovic@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I had CPC6128 2x64kb and FLOPPY! z80 CPU alright and CP/M OS. Worked in
>>> bakershop in England to save money ti buy it. Learned to program on z80.
>>>
>>> -- 7-77-777 \|/ --- /|\
>>>
>> Please adopt usenet convention and post your reply text at the bottom,
>> there's a good chap. And some judicious snipping would help too. (Yup I
>> didn't do it last time, mea culpa).
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 2021-09-24, Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 00:21:01 +0200
>> []
>>>>
>>>> Drifting; the Amstrad early version (z80 based) CPC464 had a builtin
>>>> cassette recorder.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Evil Sinner!
>>
>>
>
> ]]>2021-09-24T15:36:16-00:00Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
https://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=411209&th=113330#msg_411209
branimir.maksimovic@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok, I'll do that when you learn how to format text properly.
Or when you learn to spell "OK" properly... :-)
> Top posting is what emphaises is on, and, if lot of text, they
> will not even read what is written.
That only happens when people don't trim quoted text appropriately.
If you can't be bothered taking the time to make your message
easy to read, I can't be bothered taking the time to decipher it.
Just because Outlook[1] vict^H^H^H^Husers succumb to its pressure to
top-post doesn't make it a Good Thing.
[1] Properly pronounced "Look out!"
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | A: It messes up the flow of the thread.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Q: Why is top-posting bad?
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | A: Top-posting.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Q: What is an impediment to readability?]]>Charlie Gibbs2021-09-24T17:16:55-00:00Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
https://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=411211&th=113330#msg_411211
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> Just because Outlook[1] vict^H^H^H^Husers succumb to its pressure to
> top-post doesn't make it a Good Thing.
At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do. This is because there
is no list and so the entire thread has to be in every message so that if
someone else is added to the discussion they get the entire context. It
just means that when one of these monsters lands in the inbox you have to
start reading from the bottom, but at least by the time you get to the top
you know what they're on about.
> [1] Properly pronounced "Look out!"
or "Out House".
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/]]>Ahem A Rivet's Shot2021-09-24T18:08:32-00:00Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
https://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=411214&th=113330#msg_411214
steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 17:16:55 GMT
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Just because Outlook[1] vict^H^H^H^Husers succumb to its pressure to
>> top-post doesn't make it a Good Thing.
>
> At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
> above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do. This is because there
> is no list and so the entire thread has to be in every message so that if
> someone else is added to the discussion they get the entire context. It
> just means that when one of these monsters lands in the inbox you have to
> start reading from the bottom, but at least by the time you get to the top
> you know what they're on about.
>
>> [1] Properly pronounced "Look out!"
>
> or "Out House".
My analogy to this is a memo that gets sent around the office.
When you receive it, you photocopy the whole thing, staple your
reply to the top, and pass it on. Each time it comes back to you
you have another copy of the whole damned thing, growing thicker
every time. And all of those copies would be filling up everyone's
filing cabinets. Worst of all, trying to read such a monstrosity
from the beginning (i.e. bottom up) is a nightmare. If books were
printed that way, they would start with the last chapter, followed
by the second-to-last one, all the way down to the first chapter,
which appears at the end. Reading such a book in order would be a
supreme pain in the ass.
I realize that this habit has gotten so ingrained that it'll
probably never be eradicated. But I don't have to like it.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful -
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin]]>Charlie Gibbs2021-09-24T20:38:40-00:00Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
https://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=411216&th=113330#msg_411216
steveo@eircom.net> writes:
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 17:16:55 GMT
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Just because Outlook[1] vict^H^H^H^Husers succumb to its pressure to
>> top-post doesn't make it a Good Thing.
>
> At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
> above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do. This is because there
> is no list and so the entire thread has to be in every message so that if
> someone else is added to the discussion they get the entire context. It
> just means that when one of these monsters lands in the inbox you have to
> start reading from the bottom, but at least by the time you get to the top
> you know what they're on about.
>
Easily resolved if outlook would simply position the cursor at the
point of the new reply rather than at the start of the message when
reading new messages.]]>scott2021-09-24T21:02:38-00:00Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
https://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=411217&th=113330#msg_411217
Originally posted by: Jeff Gaines
> At work (the environment Outlook was designed for) top posting
> above a full quote is exactly the right thing to do.
That's email, not Usenet posts. When you had to have some technical
knowledge to use a computer nobody top posted - email or Usenet - in fact
you would get chucked off mailing lists for top posting. It's only since
the hoi polloi started using email that top posting has been prevalent.
Some languages read left to right, some right to left, but they are all
read top to bottom.
--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
Those are my principles and if you dont like them, well, I have others.
(Groucho Marx)]]>2021-09-24T21:05:57-00:00Re: Obit - Sir Clive Sinclair, Computing Pioneer
https://www.megalextoria.com/forum2/index.php?t=rview&goto=411218&th=113330#msg_411218
Originally posted by: Rich
In comp.os.linux.misc Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok, I'll do that when you learn how to format text properly.
> Top posting is what emphaises is on, and, if lot of text, they
> will not even read what is written.
A: Because it reverses the normal top to bottom temporal order of
English language text.
Q: Why should one not top post?]]>2021-09-24T22:02:11-00:00